Recently, I've noticed that every 10 seconds or so, my brower makes an access to chartbeat.net while viewing pages on LQ. Using 3rd parties for page hit tracking is something I consider undesirable, but it's a reality of the modern web and something I can put up with. However, constantly monitoring my activity every 10 seconds or so to see if I'm still viewing that page is going too far and just not acceptable.

Then there's the additional demands on my pc resources(the constant page accesses introduce lag) and use unnecessary network bandwidth.

Have you guys considered the privacy and other implications to your users from you getting into bed with chartbeat.net?

I see this, but not anything like 10 seconds. Looking at the chartbeat website, it seems to be clearly targeted at website maintainers who want to know how their site is being used. There are many obvious reasons why an owner/maintainer would need to do this.....Jeremy will need to answer why HE does it.

To me, participation on a public forum does not have any privacy issues---everything we post is in plain view for all to see. In accord with what I assume are standard practices, you can't get info on specific members unless they authorize it.

Bottom line: I don't see a problem.

Yep, I agree Pix'. If you post on a public site then you're in public and there's no reason to expect privacy. Having what you 'read' recorded is slightly more worrying but is akin to standing infront of a notice board in a public place. I can understand why a site owner would need to keep a track of page hits I can accept that. What concerns me here is that by checking every so often (it does appear to be every 10 - 15 seconds on my system (I use Opera), though it can vary), they're not tracking the usage of the site, but how long, and between what times, my browser is displaying the individual pages. That information has little value to the site owner as it doesn't have any impact on the site's servers or bandwidth. It's more likely to be of value to marketeers and profilers.

The concern I have here, is that a 3rd party not only knows what I've been looking at, but for how long I've been doing it. That information consolidated over all the sites they interact with could be quite significant.

I'm sure that the information from chartbeat is of some value to Jeremy, but it's use clearly has implications for the rest of us.


edit: just wanted to say on the timings, that I've seen the page refreshes vary between as short as 6 seconds and as long as 49, so I'm not entirely sure what is triggering the accesses. But, blocking chartbeat.net certainly stops it.

This is what leads to the (client) acceptance of adblock/noscript/privoxy/strict firewall rules.

No good site admins bleating about loss of revenue/data/whatever if it isn't made patently clear this tracking is being done. And why.

You can also use noscript for FF, if you have that site not allowed, it won't do this.

It's an analytical tool for sites, to see where your clicks are coming from, how long people are staying, whether the ads are successful and so on. These things are not new and do not affect members - we get so many hits that to suggest Jeremy is somehow watching us all is bizarre. Jeremy has a lot of things to do on and offline. All this does is to help Jeremy understand his visitor base and to help him make decisions about the site.

I never suggested that Jeremy was spying on us. You're taking my topic title a little to literally.

Are you saying that chartbeat only provide analysis for the site owner himself and will not sell on, or use the data they collect from us in any other way? If not, then I beg to differ, this might very well affect members who are concerned about these sorts of privacy issues.


And yes, I understand that google/doubleclick and the like have been doing this sort of thing for years. I don't particularly like it, but I live with it. However, the difference is that chartbeat is monitoring us in real-time(via the dynamic refresh of the page it appears to do), which to my mind is just a step too far. You may disagree, that's your prerogative, but that's the way I see it.

Again, you can stop it all with noscript: google-analytics, chartbeat, etc.

A couple comments:

* We take your privacy *very* seriously here at LQ. We always have and always will. We do so because I take my privacy on the web seriously and I think it's right thing to do. To me you're not "eyeballs" or ad impressions... you're members.
* I signed up to chartbeat to address a very specific problem that I have not been able to fully track down, which is that LQ seems to load very slowly for a very small number of users. Page load times is one of the few things chartbeat monitors.
* I did read the chartbeat privacy policy in full before putting any of their code on LQ. They do not collect *any* personally identifiable information and explicitly state that they "will not sell, lease or exchange your personal data to third parties".
* I don't plan to keep chartbeat on LQ long term. They have a gratis trial period and my intention is to cancel before that expires.

I hope over the last nine years we've earned your trust enough that you don't think we'd spy on you in any way. If there's any additional information you'd like on this topic or anything else we do - just ask, I'd like to think we're one of the most open and transparent sites on the web.

--jeremy

Assuming you're aware it's going on yes, and I did block it as soon as I noticed what it was doing.

But, how many LQ members are using the site completely unaware this is going on? Now, maybe like Xavier and Pix they won't care and don't see supplying tracking data to 3rd parties as a concern, but perhaps they will. People shouldn't have to dig through page source or firewall logs to pick up on this sort of covert activity.

Perhaps instead of using sneaky tricks like transparent gif's on pages to track people, people like google-analytics, double-click and the like should be upfront about it and track pages using a small icon that says "Visitors to this page are is being tracked by _________" when hovered over and takes them to a page with a full explanation/privacy statement when clicked on. But I think we'd all agree they're very unlikey to want to do it that way.


Anyway, this forum is for feedback, which I've now given, so no point labouring the point any further.

@Jeremy

The fact you've given it due consideration is some reassurance in itself.

One thing to watch out for is that most of these companies take the view that an ip-address is not 'personally identifiable information' as it doesn't identify an individual directly, which though true, could lead to information that is recorded against it being tied back to an individual at a later date should the ip-address@time -> person mapping become available from elsewhere.

It's not that I don't trust you Jeremy, it's just that I don't trust these large tracking/marketting companies to play fair. I hope you appreciate the distinction.

I'm not trying to be negative or cause trouble, I've very much enjoyed my time with these forums, and hopefully my contributions have been of value to someone.

Thankyou for the reply.

Glad to hear it's temporary and you know what you doing. But the constant intermittent page loads are awfully annoying and I have now blocked chartbeat.net.