Just emitting a rant.

Likely many of you have had similar situations. And it's old as well as new forum members. They post a question, seems routine, you send either follow-up questions, or a suggestion because you think you have an answer to offer. And they respond, making it worse because their clarification points imply that the situation is different than their original 1/2 question.

Well, that's not abnormal. So you proceed to say something like "post code", and then have to say "use [code] tags". And it all just continues to get worse. You may post follow up code clips which you feel are correct, comment on what they've shown telling them exactly where you see their problems, but they seemingly ignore and respond "I've tried ...." and it's not really any better of an attempt, in fact they seem to ignore entirely what you've said.

One reaction is humbleness. "Er, I guess I don't understand their problem ..."But then another responder, likely a user you see regularly, pretty much backs up what you say,. or comes very close.

It's frustrating.

I totally agree. Personally, I think that until someone reaches some number of posts (like 25, say), every new thread they open should be moderated, BEFORE it becomes 'public'. That way, the number of:

• Give links for xxxx
• How to install yyyy for NS2, pls help
• Need a script for zzz
• Where to download program wwww

...will be rejected with a canned response. Posters who do such things will go elsewhere, which isn't a bad thing. And it sounds harsh, but someone who posts such things only detracts people from helping others, since we ALL have to wade through this junk. And, if said posters actually DO take the advice to heart and change their ways, it will only help THEM in the long run, by getting them answers more quickly and giving them the impetus to do research on their own FIRST.

This isn't anything that's not be discussed here before...just look at the forums lately, and you can tell that school is back in session in some parts of the world, just by the number of "plz help with NS2" questions, with ZERO effort.

There is an evergreen problem with newbies, they usually ignore what they do not understand. Can't fix that.

1 members found this post helpful.

Patience is a virtue...

Hah-hah, TB0ne. Yeah I started a thread asking "What's all the fuss about NS2?" and rapidly found out that it's due to school. I think I raised that question this time last year.

Very "Stack Overflow'ish" but not just the 25 posts, but maybe also have the top persons like moderators or Jeremy be able to declare, "That's not a post, so it doesn't count". Right, sort of force them to be relevant posts rather than those examples we're talking about.

Because they can emit hundreds of posts, and if they're all 100 percent junk, then just getting to a technical count of 25 doesn't help.

jeremy addressed the issue by suggesting LQ members respond by providing link to; http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...#faq_lqwelcome to user(s) who post in poor composition/content.

1 members found this post helpful.

Yes I was part of the discussion in the Suggestions and Feedback thread, or one of them.

And sure one or two can note the thread that caused me to rant.

It is just a rant that I emitted into the non-nix general forum.

Like Emerson says, you can't fix some of those things.

I do post the Welcome to LQ link and see others posting it. IMHO we don't need to solve anything here.

Yes. It is!

1 members found this post helpful.

I agree with you.

I believe a step back would be beneficial.
Forest for the trees and what knot?

It's not just this board/forum either.

I would have bet a dollar that this was going to come up during this topic:
It's a classic.

// Moved to LQSF.

Yes, I saw that one when it was posted - the whole post is classic! And this, "Do not ask me to post logs...", I found it difficult to keep my hands tied away from the keyboard. But that was not a new member either, if my failing memory serves me.

I have become burned out with this and related problems to the point that I have pretty much begun to ignore anything that I do not feel is a well asked question for which I have a good and ready and simple answer... which has greatly curtailed my own visible participation in the forums. I hope that like a bad lunch, it will all pass...

But probably no time soon...

I guess you meant this sad sample?

1 members found this post helpful.

Ah, yes. I had thought they were the same user, but just another sad example, indeed.

Actually ... I have personally had an experience that, well, may reveal my age.

Thirty (ahem ...) years ago, when Intel Corporation (et al) had not yet worked its present patented miracles, so "digital computers" were (vastly miniaturized to 'merely' ...) the size of breadboxes, and accessed only through "computer terminals," computer anxiety was recognized to be a serious problem. And, at the University where I then worked (as a student myself), I was one day served with an explicit example of it.

In those days, BASIC was the language of choice, and people often wrote their programs in advance on "coding forms" (as though they would have to punch them onto cards ...) before waiting in line (sometimes) to get access to "the terminal room." One day, a student walked into our office and asked me for help. I accompanied her to the room, where I saw her coding-form carefully arranged next to a terminal. "I typed it all in," she said, "but nothing's happening ..."

Curious, now, I reached to the back of the terminal where the power-switch was, and turned in on.

"Stop," she suddenly commanded.

Guessing instantly what had happened, and being completely determined not to embarrass her, I said a few general comments and politely excused myself. Yes, there were subsequently many other times when she, and others, asked for my assistance. I never mentioned that incident again ... neither will I ever mention her name.

(P.S.: This is probably the one and only time when I actually queried another student's final grade. And, for the record, she made an "A." In fact, she graduated "summa cum laude," as ... ahem ... did I.)

So ... even "in the 21st Century" ... let's just continue to try to help everyone, even if we could just as easily vilify them. Because, let's face it, "we," to whom "all this stuff" seems easy, "might still be the exception, rather than the rule." No one ever wants to be humiliated, let-alone in a now-global(!!) "public place."

"Computers are hard." Still.

I'm going to echo what sundialsvcs said. Not everyone who comes here (or to any forum) knows how to ask a question.

I cut my cyberteeth on BBS's and newsgroups, where one learned quickly that, to ask a question, one should provide information about what one was trying to do, what one had tried, and what happened when one tried it. If one did not learn that lesson through observation, one was schooled--er--most emphatically.

But one had to learn. Knowing how to ask a technical question in a technical place is a learned skill.

LQ is easily the friendliest Linux place on the world wide web; that's one reason I hang out here. I think that that is something we should treasure and it's part of what makes LQ more than just a website, but a community--a highly specialized community, but still a community. When a new poster mucks up the question, more experienced members can educate him or her as tactfully as possible (which already seems to be the norm here, not the exception). If he or she refuses to be educated, the mods will deal with him or her appropriately; I have seen them do so.

Yeah, I know it can be frustrating.

I wore a support headset for eight years in a very quirky and esoteric corner of the industry. During that time I learned that persons of good will often ask the wrong question the wrong way because they just don't know how to ask it the right way and they don't know how to figure out which question is the right question, because they can't tell a symptom from a cause. I realized that part of my job, in addition to helping callers solve specific problems with my company's hardware and software, was helping them learn to troubleshoot. I think that idea is also relevant here.

AFAIC, LQ is not just a troubleshooting place; it's also a teaching place.

2 members found this post helpful.