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Old 11-04-2006, 07:31 PM   #1
Adriaan Nikken
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2006
Location: anywhere the freights roll
Distribution: ubuntu, running on a hp pavilion zv5000
Posts: 21

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just a heads up


One of the problems i am finding on this site is people will write code, or talk about stuff, when some of us are still just trying to get the jist of what is going on. I am pretty sure we all have areas of life that we specialize in. I can talk about medical issues, or mechanical stuff. It is just another level of elitism, but I do realize it intimidates people and possibly scares them away from some things
 
Old 11-04-2006, 07:51 PM   #2
BaltikaTroika
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Distribution: Debian 4.0, Ubuntu 6.10, Ubuntu Server 6.06
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriaan Nikken
people will write code, or talk about stuff
So you want people to stop talking about stuff?

 
Old 11-04-2006, 09:23 PM   #3
trickykid
Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,133

Rep: Reputation: 199Reputation: 199
Ok so when someone asks for a shell script to do something, I'll just go back to telling them to read the Advanced-Bash_Scripting tutorial and to come back after they've learned it for more specific questions..

Even though I encourage that, it's not always going to happen that way. Some want to learn, some just want someone else to do it for them and disregard how it might work. That's how it is sometimes, so asking people to stop providing answers would go against the purpose of this site.
 
Old 11-04-2006, 09:28 PM   #4
2damncommon
Senior Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Calif, USA
Distribution: Debian Wheezy
Posts: 2,839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriaan Nikken
One of the problems i am finding on this site is people will write code, or talk about stuff, when some of us are still just trying to get the jist of what is going on. I am pretty sure we all have areas of life that we specialize in. I can talk about medical issues, or mechanical stuff. It is just another level of elitism, but I do realize it intimidates people and possibly scares them away from some things
In other words:
WARNING!!!
WHEN YOU MAKE A POST ON THE INTERNET, ANYONE, YES ANYONE, MAY ANSWER IN ANY WAY THEY PLEASE!!!
AS A MATTER OF FACT, ANYONE, YES ANYONE, MAY POST THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!!!
FYI IMHO YMMV LOL

Last edited by 2damncommon; 11-04-2006 at 09:38 PM.
 
Old 11-04-2006, 10:05 PM   #5
jschiwal
Guru
 
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Fargo, ND
Distribution: SuSE AMD64
Posts: 15,733

Rep: Reputation: 655Reputation: 655Reputation: 655Reputation: 655Reputation: 655Reputation: 655
By reading enough posts, you'll probably pick it up. My uncle has a neighbor who passed away. His divorced wife and sone took over the farm. The son grew up in town and didn't know much about farming. He would crawl up onto the barn roof and see what the other farmers where doing. That's how he knew when it was time to start planting!

The general and newbie sections don't get so deep. Plus if you have a question what something means you can always ask. Plus many of us ( myself included ) may get a bit pedantic at times.
 
Old 11-05-2006, 12:04 AM   #6
jiml8
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Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,171

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There is no "elitism" involved. The discussions occur using the language that is appropriate to the topic. The depth of the discussion invariably gets tailored to the level of the least knowledgeable participant in the discussion; everyone soon figures out who that is (usually the person asking the question) and the discussion then is set appropriately.

The idea that the discussion should be made at the most basic possible level in all cases in order to accommodate the least knowledgeable of the possible readers is absurd. I think, if you genuinely believe that, then you must be a "professional educator" in a US Government (aka "public") school.

If you don't understand a discussion then one of the following conditions applies: (a) it is about a topic that you don't need to know much about - move to the next topic; or (b) it is a topic that you do need to know about - study the thread carefully and learn; or (c) it is a topic that you do need to know about, and the depth is so far beyond you that you can't follow it - join in and ask for explanations.

Your argument about "elitism" in technical jargon can be applied to many fields. Visualize a physician having a conversation, employing your logic: "Me make big hole in belly, cut out cancer. Hope me not hit that little thing over there and make big bloody mess and patient die."

Absurd.
 
Old 11-05-2006, 02:31 AM   #7
Adriaan Nikken
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2006
Location: anywhere the freights roll
Distribution: ubuntu, running on a hp pavilion zv5000
Posts: 21

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
I posted a question about why i can't get the wep key to work, I did explain that i am a newbie at this, and considering I don't know enough about the problem to ask a specific enough question, it is absurd that people answer in some jargon that few people understand. I belive it is quite clear that I am the least knowledgeable in this situation, so talking code is insane, as well as defending that position. One of the points of this site is to promote open source. If people are "explaining stuff that is entirely incomprehensable that hardly promotes anything but prehaps microsoft.
Perhaps if people were to put themselves in other peoples shoes more often in life we could actually get something done.
 
Old 11-05-2006, 08:34 AM   #8
jeremy
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I think most members here are sympathetic to the fact that many other members are new to Linux. In fact, we have many members who started off completely new to Linux who are now regularly answering questions. Our friendly atmosphere is one of our main strengths and for a technical forum I think you'll find us one of the friendliest places around. Of course we can (and do) always strive to be better, but as mentioned this is a 100% volunteer organization.

--jeremy
 
Old 11-05-2006, 09:02 AM   #9
duryodhan
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2006
Distribution: Slackware 12 Kernel 2.6.24 - probably upgraded by now
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As someone who started off with Slackware just arnd 20 days back .. mind you my FIRST Linux install .... I am aghast that you could say that the ppl here aren't that helpfull etc. etc. If it weren't for LQ god Save me ASS.

LQ forums are some of the most helpfull ones I have been on and I have been on quite a few.

IF you are just scared ons seeeing code I think you really should start using Windoz.
To use Linux I think you have to realize one thing..
CLI is much more powerfull than GUI. Period.
 
Old 11-05-2006, 09:36 AM   #10
trickykid
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Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,133

Rep: Reputation: 199Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriaan Nikken
I posted a question about why i can't get the wep key to work, I did explain that i am a newbie at this, and considering I don't know enough about the problem to ask a specific enough question, it is absurd that people answer in some jargon that few people understand. I belive it is quite clear that I am the least knowledgeable in this situation, so talking code is insane, as well as defending that position. One of the points of this site is to promote open source. If people are "explaining stuff that is entirely incomprehensable that hardly promotes anything but prehaps microsoft.
Perhaps if people were to put themselves in other peoples shoes more often in life we could actually get something done.
If at anytime a member asks a question, gets a reply they don't understand, all that is required is that they reply with a simple "I'm not following you or I don't understand your solution, can you provide a more in depth explanation" or the like. Most members come here to help others, they don't know your background or what you may or may not understand, asking more questions or asking for better definitions of a solution are also required by the person posting the question.

Hand holding should not be required, but ask for it if you need it!

Last edited by trickykid; 11-05-2006 at 09:37 AM.
 
Old 11-05-2006, 06:12 PM   #11
jiml8
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,171

Rep: Reputation: 115Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriaan Nikken
I posted a question about why i can't get the wep key to work, I did explain that i am a newbie at this, and considering I don't know enough about the problem to ask a specific enough question, it is absurd that people answer in some jargon that few people understand. I belive it is quite clear that I am the least knowledgeable in this situation, so talking code is insane, as well as defending that position. One of the points of this site is to promote open source. If people are "explaining stuff that is entirely incomprehensable that hardly promotes anything but prehaps microsoft.
Perhaps if people were to put themselves in other peoples shoes more often in life we could actually get something done.
It is incumbent upon you to learn the language if you want to understand the conversation.

Everyone here will be willing to help you learn the language, but - as you can see - you won't get a very sympathetic hearing when you tell everyone else to stop speaking the language.

Computers are complicated and the issues are often complicated. The jargon - "code", as you call it - isn't to obscure, it is to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing the same way.
 
Old 11-06-2006, 11:20 AM   #12
weibullguy
ReliaFree Maintainer
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Distribution: Slackware-current, Cross Linux from Scratch, Gentoo
Posts: 2,753
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Rep: Reputation: 238Reputation: 238Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriaan Nikken
I posted a question about why i can't get the wep key to work, I did explain that i am a newbie at this, and considering I don't know enough about the problem to ask a specific enough question, it is absurd that people answer in some jargon that few people understand. I belive it is quite clear that I am the least knowledgeable in this situation, so talking code is insane, as well as defending that position. One of the points of this site is to promote open source. If people are "explaining stuff that is entirely incomprehensable that hardly promotes anything but prehaps microsoft.
Perhaps if people were to put themselves in other peoples shoes more often in life we could actually get something done.
I looked at your wep key post thinking I might try to clarify the answers with all the code. No one has replied yet, so I really fail to understand your complaint about code. In fact, of the nine posts you have at LQ.org, two are in this thread, two are hijacks of other peoples threads, and in no case do any of the threads contain a lick of code.

That being the case, one is left to wonder whether you are complaining in general about overly technical answers to technical questions. If that is the case, it is a completely asinine complaint. The fact is technical questions beget technical answers. From what I have seen, if someone in this forum posts code or commands, that code or those commands are complete enough that you can copy 'n' paste them (at your own risk).

If you're not interested in learning the technical aspects of computing, then copy 'n' paste (at your own risk) and move along. If, on the other hand, you are interested in understanding what you're doing, then ask. I would find it highly improbable that any member at LQ.org would tell you to shove off. I've seen many (and been involved in a few) threads with two dozen or more posts back and forth just to help someone edit a configuration file. Would've been easier to give up after three or four, but that's not what LQ.org is about, IMHO.
 
Old 11-06-2006, 10:44 PM   #13
btmiller
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: In the DC 'burbs
Distribution: Arch, Scientific Linux, Debian, Ubuntu
Posts: 4,159

Rep: Reputation: 328Reputation: 328Reputation: 328Reputation: 328
FWIW, I try to keep my answers in the Newbie forum a bit less technical and a bit more descriptive. In other forums, I tent to assume that the poster has at least some familiarity with Linux unless there'd obvious hints in his or her post to indicate otherwise. This seems to have worked at least as far as I can see, and as Trickykid mentioned, one can always ask for an explanation. On a couple of occasions I've given an answer and had the OP come back asking for some more details which I or another poster am generally happy to provide.

I've sometimes wondered if this is a good way to go, but as I said it seems to have worked so far.
 
Old 11-15-2006, 10:24 PM   #14
Uncle Spellbinder
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 3

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The more "technical talk" i saw (here, Ubuntu forums and Debian forums), the more I wanted to learn what it was all about. I am by no means an expert by any stretch of the imagination. More closer to an "intermediate" Linux user, I suppose. But having tinkered with various distros, Fedora (core 3, 4 and 6), Open Suse, Xandros, Ubuntu (Dapper and Edgy), Ive learned quite a bit. I've finally found my Linux home in Debian (currently using Etch). Thanks to the "technical talk" here and elsewhere, I've learned a lot.
 
  


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