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Old 03-06-2012, 02:40 AM   #16
k3lt01
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Thank you Jeremy for your reply. I did raise my concerns in one of the relevant threads. Next time I will just report it and give evidence to support my report.
 
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:14 AM   #17
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What about people who seek non technical and even medical advice in LQ ? Not that that is a particularly good idea.

Yeah, they post in General about all sorts of things. I guess we should be forbidden from answering them ... or maybe they should be forbidden from posting them.

Am I to blame if I answer a question to the best of my knowledge and then someone else complains and harasses me as a result ?

I don't think the right issue is being addressed. The real issue is censorship. k3lt01 wishes to censor what people post. And it's not even for a reason. He claims that what other people are saying is dangerous because of his own personal bias and a lack of knowledge in the field.

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 03-07-2012 at 11:16 AM.
 
Old 03-07-2012, 11:21 AM   #18
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This is in no way about censorship. You've been around LQ long enough to know how pro-free speech and anti-censorship we are. If a member thinks something being posted is demonstrably dangerous from a medical perspective, it should reported. A mod can then evaluate the post and make a judgment call from there.

--jeremy
 
Old 03-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #19
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I see, and I agree. However, there is a slight problem, in that the moderator would need to have some knowledge in whatever field was being discussed in order to make a judgement call, right ? Or, if not, how would the judgement call be made ?
 
Old 03-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #20
k3lt01
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How about just giving proof of what is claimed and not just from wikipedia? If a person has an expertise then by all means use it but at least use sources that an expert would use. If a mechanic tells someone what to do to fix their car they wouldn't use encyclopedia britanica they would use a workshop manual. Someone with medical expertise should, in my opinion, be able to pull a wide range of medical sites and they should not have to resort to wikipedia 99% of the time.
 
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
This is in no way about censorship. You've been around LQ long enough to know how pro-free speech and anti-censorship we are. If a member thinks something being posted is demonstrably dangerous from a medical perspective, it should reported. A mod can then evaluate the post and make a judgment call from there.

--jeremy
I will report the post today that started much of this and state that evidence is contained at the end of the thread to support my feelings. I haven't reported it until yet as I have been busy this week.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 02:07 AM   #22
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Information given here should be treated with the same amount of trust as if you had a conversation with a mate in a pub; there is no guarantee that what is given is correct (and that applies to both technical and non-technical contexts).

People here wouldn't take a detailed procedure listed here and implement it straight onto a critical production server - they would first check it out on a test system.

So why on earth would they take medical/legal/emotional/etc. advice in any other way?
 
Old 03-08-2012, 03:46 AM   #23
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prowla View Post
Information given here should be treated with the same amount of trust as if you had a conversation with a mate in a pub; there is no guarantee that what is given is correct (and that applies to both technical and non-technical contexts).

People here wouldn't take a detailed procedure listed here and implement it straight onto a critical production server - they would first check it out on a test system.

So why on earth would they take medical/legal/emotional/etc. advice in any other way?
Read this thread and then tell me some people do not take things way beyond what is actually written down and then blame others for their own misunderstanding. Read this thread and notice someone with pain went jogging because someone else suggested it. This is not a targeting exercise but these are useful example as to why some things need to be accurate and provided with trustworthy and reliable resources not just wikipedia and/or hearsay.

The second link prompted this thread (the one you are reading these words in), this one, and also this one.

But wait there's more. A quick search in General will provide you with many posts about vaccines, and other medical matters, such as swine flu and gardasil which all end up in heated debates simply because as soon as these things are posted and someone has the guts to question or debate the topic it turns into a fight about who knows more and who has the better proof. If you read the through threads you will see a couple of names that are always involved (I'm not one of them ), you will also see (and I think this is hilarious) someone announcing they have had enough and are unsubscribing only to turn back up a couple of pages later to flame the coals. The Swine flu thread had 3 "I'm not coming back again"s before page 15. What is the point? There is either a wealth of knowledge out there or there isn't. Spreading misinformation and fud (the swine flu thread is full of conspiracy theories) is dangerous.

Lets just be clear I have never said people shouldn't be allowed to post what they want. I do not advocate censorship, even though I acknowledge it exists at many levels, but I do believe that people's health is much more important than any individuals right to post some of the things that are contained in threads to do with medicine.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 04:06 AM   #24
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From The Rules:
Quote:
We would like to stress that you should fully understand what a recommended change may do to your system.


Applies to your body as much as to your PC. If someone is relying out and out on an internet forum for a medical diagnosis/cure then there are bigger issues than maybe getting wrong information. The best medical advice I ever saw on an internet forum was from a guy who said he was a GP. His advice: "get off the forum and go see a real doctor".
 
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:49 AM   #25
k3lt01
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I agree with the quoted rule so I ask why is it a problem to counter what we believe to be bad advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP View Post
If someone is relying out and out on an internet forum for a medical diagnosis/cure then there are bigger issues than maybe getting wrong information.
I agree.

There has been no thread that I can see that the intention of the thread is to rely solely on medical advice on a forum that is apart from those that are deliberately designed to be scare campaigns. One thread the OP asked what type of doctor to see and then proceeded to get a heap of advice on things other than what type of doctor to see. The intention of most other threads is to mount scare campaigns. The programmers thread, which prompted 3 other threads, was just a general chat about health in the IT industry but turned into an I know more than you slinging match. Is this not a problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP View Post
The best medical advice I ever saw on an internet forum was from a guy who said he was a GP. His advice: "get off the forum and go see a real doctor".
Again I agree but I wouldn't tell people to get off the forum, I doubt Jeremy would approve, but my underlying message has been go and see a real (as in see them in person) doctor. I just think it's nuts to even give advice (without at least expressing a need to personally go and see a doctor or medical practitioner for appropriate testing/diagnosis/monitoring) because the consequences can be disastrous.

Anyway, I have given a diverse range of evidence to support my concerns. They have been rebuffed (go figure) as not being of very good quality (one article directly quotes a high quality medical journal but apparently its not high quality ) so I'll leave it to the LQ powers that be to deal with and I'll just report with evidence anything else I see that I believe is of concern.

Last edited by k3lt01; 03-08-2012 at 05:55 AM.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #26
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP View Post
From The Rules:

Applies to your body as much as to your PC. If someone is relying out and out on an internet forum for a medical diagnosis/cure then there are bigger issues than maybe getting wrong information. The best medical advice I ever saw on an internet forum was from a guy who said he was a GP. His advice: "get off the forum and go see a real doctor".
Indeed, that is the best advice for medical issues, and I have ALWAYS given it first, even tho I am not a GP. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Indeed, that is the best advice for medical issues, and I have ALWAYS given it first, even tho I am not a GP. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this.
Challange acce...wait, thats pretty lame now.

From the "Programmers' Health Talk, here (Backpains, neck, ...)" thread, your 1st post-

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Things to have:

1) Good chair and good posture. Do exercise every day, at least jogging for 20 min. This should eliminate back pain.
2) Monitor at about eye level, angled properly, at the right distance (further rather than closer). The refresh frequency should be at least 60 Hz (50 may be acceptable) and it should NOT be a CRT monitor (these are bad for your eyes and emit radiation). Never work in a dark room with a bright monitor, always have some source of light to balance the contrast. Don't just stare at the monitor for 10 hours straight, take a break, look outside. This should eliminate eye strain and neck pain.
3) Never touch type on a QWERTY keyboard, they are designed to prevent typewriters from jamming, they are NOT designed for touch typing and trying to do so may increase your chances of getting carpal tunnel or at least some wrist pain. Dvorak is designed for touch typing and will prevent wrist pain and carpal tunnel, which no "ergonomic" keyboard can do. Make sure the keyboard is at the right level for typing, not too high. This should eliminate wrist pain and carpal tunnel (although there are many other causes for this).

That's all I can think of right now, any other pain to eliminate ?
No mention of going to a doctor at all from you on that thread.

Even when you do put a 'go see a doctor' you dont 'give it first'. From the "What kind of doctor should be sought for the problem of body fatigue?" thread-

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I recommend Iodine (as long as you are not allergic) and Iron supplements.

You should see a good doctor, it doesn't matter what specialty. Probably a general practitioner is who people have access to most, so go there. Ask around for a good one.
I didnt know that H_TeXMeX_H had recivied an infraction for the "Programmers' Health Talk, here (Backpains, neck, ...)" thread, or had started another thread becuase of that infraction. Well, thats the way it goes sometimes.

I'm actually suprised at this whole thread.....airing your dirty lanudy in public, its never seemed to be a good idea to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
If a member thinks something being posted is demonstrably dangerous from a medical perspective, it should reported. A mod can then evaluate the post and make a judgment call from there.
Which is fair enough, but its very hard to get that sort of information given some situations. Not just from the information abotu the possible disease, but also as far as the posting goes.

To use the "Programmers' Health Talk, here (Backpains, neck, ...)" thread as an example, it isnt untill post #58 that Xeratul mentions that they use exercise equipment, and has a fractured rib. That sort of information would have been better put into the 1st post. A person who exersises and has had a broken/fraqctured rib is in a different situation to someone who doesnt exercise and has no broken bones.

Its the same thing as in some techincal posts. I'd guess that every person in this thread has seen technical posts where the OP doesnt provide enough information, or the 'right' information. The only big difference is that people know what 'rm - rf' does, and if someone suggests it maliciously, or from stupidity, that post will be dealt with by moderation very quicky.

If somebody posts take XXXXX, or do YYYYY in response to a ZZZZZZ problem, its far less clear cut as to any possible dangers.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #28
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It seems pretty clear to me that this thread has run its course. I'm going to allow a small amount of time for any final feedback or comments, and then close it.

--jeremy
 
Old 03-08-2012, 11:00 AM   #29
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In the Programmer health talk I was not responding to any one particular health issue. My comments were more on how to prevent common, daily pain, that I too have experienced. It's not like someone broke their back and then I go tell them to jog. Be serious now. I know you try your hardest to make demeaning comments on absolutely everything I post, but it is not productive, especially with your attitude. I suppose I could do the same to you, but it's not in my nature, and I don't want to stoop to your level.
 
Old 03-08-2012, 11:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
In the Programmer health talk I was not responding to any one particular health issue. My comments were more on how to prevent common, daily pain, that I too have experienced. It's not like someone broke their back and then I go tell them to jog. Be serious now. I know you try your hardest to make demeaning comments on absolutely everything I post, but it is not productive, especially with your attitude. I suppose I could do the same to you, but it's not in my nature, and I don't want to stoop to your level.
Back pain is a medical issue. You gave advice without suggesting that the poster go see a doctor. Q.E.D..

I actually dont try to 'make demeaning comments on absolutely everything you post'. I tend to avoid threads with posts by you in them. Every time I disagree with you H_TeXMeX_H, I get the same sort of treatment- if you acknowledge my post, you either make accusations like that, or an outright dismissal. Normally with no backup.

I'm not calling other peoples posts 'nonsense' with nothing to backup my position.
 
  


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