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k3lt01 03-04-2012 01:54 PM

Giving of non technical non PC related advice in LQ
 
I have a concern about people giving non technical non PC related advice in LQ. I have been watching medical advice being given in various threads that can, and I know this from personal experience, be quite dangerous. I have tried discussing this with individuals and they still persist. My worry is someone will do something and exacerbate any medical issue they may have, or maybe even cause more, because they have taken advice from an internet forum (one that isn't medical related to make it worse).

I'm sorry if this causes an argument but I think it is more important that people actually see someone who is qualified for certain things than take advice over the internet. It is vitally important that things like medical issues are tested for and monitored, unfortunately testing and monitoring cannot be done over a forum where the individuals participating are anonymous. I know we are adults and are supposed to take responsibility for our own actions but who will take responsibility if something goes wrong?

b0uncer 03-04-2012 03:27 PM

Well, if you are an adult, you take responsibility for yourself. Nobody (that is "adult" in the sense that s/he is able to look after her/himself) should just blindly follow advices read on the internet. Sure you could censor and silence persons that give questionable advices, but what for--you'd just be affecting the results, not the reason, and as such not helping anybody. To be able to speak (write) freely is a very profound right, and it should not be undermined even if there are some gray areas to it (giving it away has always led to problems). Censoring one thing in order to create something better typically leads to broadening of the censorship, and in the end something that few will like.

You can't stop people from making mistakes. If you let them make mistakes, they'll learn (either as persons or as a mankind), but if you try to prevent them from making mistakes, they'll just become careless and make even more mistakes. And since LQ is not a police state, policing the content in this way would in my opinion be an overkill (as long as the conversations stay in the general section). Writing about illegal things is already prohibited, if I'm correct.

dugan 03-04-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618305)
I have tried discussing this with individuals and they still persist.

Stop that. You have no right to tell other posters what they can and cannot discuss.

prowla 03-04-2012 04:12 PM

Ironically, this thread is doing the very thing it says is bad...

Doc CPU 03-04-2012 04:53 PM

Hi there,

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618305)
I have a concern about people giving non technical non PC related advice in LQ.

why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618305)
I have been watching medical advice being given in various threads that can, and I know this from personal experience, be quite dangerous.

Yes, maybe. And sometimes people also ask for legal advice, or advice on what brand of product they should prefer, advice on social or even sexual matters.

So what? Many people talk about these things with their friends - so why not talk about them in a wider, more public audience? Actually, there are subjects I wouldn't like to discuss even with my closest friends, but rather with someone totally anonymous. Strangers aren't biased, they just know what I tell them, and their reaction can be taken genuine and without prejudice about me as a person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618305)
I know we are adults and are supposed to take responsibility for our own actions but who will take responsibility if something goes wrong?

The people who took a layman's opinion for granted and relied on it. Who else? As you say, we're adults and should be able to make our own decision. Other people's opinions and advice may help us make a decision, but if somebody relies entirely on a stranger's word, he or she sure has bigger problems than that.

[X] Doc CPU

k3lt01 03-04-2012 05:23 PM

When the advice can have deadly consequences there is a problem. I am willing to stop doing things if it can be shown that there are deadly consequences. Telling people they should do such and such without even having physically check them is against all medical oaths (at least in Australia). People self diagnosing illness has become problematic, it is on the news daily in Australia, and the internet is a huge part of that problem. Why risk someone else's life? That is my concern.

@Dugan, I haven't told anyone what they can or cannot discuss. Show me where I have done this! Discussing health issues is a part of life, giving medical advice when you don't even know the person isn't.

@Prowla, how? What have I said in my OP that gives you that idea? I haven't given any non technical advice in this thread nor have I given any medical advice (apart from the need to see a real doctor). Please show me where in this thread you believe I have done so.

EDIT: I see that a moderator has stepped in in one thread.

Doc CPU 03-04-2012 05:30 PM

Hi there,

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618413)
@Dugan, I haven't told anyone what they can or cannot discuss. Show me where I have done this! Discussing health issues is a part of life, giving medical advice when you don't even know the person isn't.

@Prowla, how? What have I said in my OP that gives you that idea? I haven't given any non technical advice in this thread nor have I given any medical advice (apart from the need to see a real doctor). Please show me where in this thread you believe I have done so.

it looks to me like you don't distinguish between an advice and an order. Advice is something that can become a factor in making a decision, an order is something that someone else decides for me. Advice is always without obligation. Obliging without reflection isn't a fault of the person who gave the advice.

Just my 2 cents.

[X] Doc CPU

dugan 03-04-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618413)
@Dugan, I haven't told anyone what they can or cannot discuss. Show me where I have done this!

I quoted the part where you mentioned doing so, and wrote my comment below it. Duh.

It's hard to see someone ignoring context like this and not conclude that it's intentional.

k3lt01 03-04-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc CPU (Post 4618416)
it looks to me like you don't distinguish between an advice and an order. Advice is something that can become a factor in making a decision, an order is something that someone else decides for me. Advice is always without obligation. Obliging without reflection isn't a fault of the person who gave the advice.

Just my 2 cents.

[X] Doc CPU

Advice given by people who claim medical authority yet will not give evidence and suggest others have no idea so you shouldn't listen to them is supposed to be pretty compelling don't you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4618417)
I quoted the part where you mentioned doing so, and wrote my comment below it. Duh.

Where in that quote does it say that I told someone not to say something? It does not, it says I tried discussing it with them and they still persist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4618417)
It's hard to see someone ignoring context like this and not conclude that it's intentional.

Well you took what I said out of context, what should I conclude from that?

Again my concern is consequences to the person who is in need of medical assistance, not what you think of my post.

dugan 03-04-2012 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618448)
Where in that quote does it say that I told someone not to say something? It does not, it says I tried discussing it with them and they still persist.

Which means that you told them not to do something. If you had "discussed" it in any other way, then you would not have added the "and they still persist".

;)

Quote:

[X] Doc CPU
Advice given by people who claim medical authority yet will not give evidence and suggest others have no idea so you shouldn't listen to them is supposed to be pretty compelling don't you think?
Oh, you mean that what you deem to be bad advice is not compelling? Wouldn't that mean that it's not likely to cause harm? Maybe you should dial down the self righteousness a bit then?

k3lt01 03-04-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4618453)
Which means that you told them not to do something. If you had "discussed" it in any other way, then you would not have added the "and they still persist".

Dugan at no stage have I, unlike you who started your contribution to this thread by telling me not to do something, told anyone not to do something. I have discussed, unsuccessfully, my reasons for thinking this is a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 4618453)
Oh, you mean that what you deem to be bad advice is not compelling? Wouldn't that mean that it's not likely to cause harm?

No I mean, and you know quite well what I mean, that when someone states they have medical knowledge (through courses) and that others don't know what they are talking about they are trying to show they have a compelling argument to follow their advice.

On the other hand I have only been through (never had to study because I have personal experience, I know what it feels like to have certain symptoms and what following said advice would have done to me) a very serious illness. My concern, as I have said before, is possible consequences to the person in need of medical assistance, not what you think of my post. If you have no concern about peoples welfare then so be it, I do have concerns and will voice them.

Doc CPU 03-05-2012 04:29 AM

Hi there,

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618448)
Advice given by people who claim medical authority yet will not give evidence and suggest others have no idea so you shouldn't listen to them is supposed to be pretty compelling don't you think?

no, not up to that point.
For me, it takes convincing arguments supported by facts I can prove true doing my own research to take an advice seriously. A simple "You should do ..." or "If I were you, I'd never ...", or even a stronger phrase like "You must ..." is nearly worthless for me if it isn't supported by credible arguments and at least some trace of proof.
Even when I'm getting advice from professionals (whether it's in the medical, technical, legal or cultural domain), I don't accept it unreflected, but insist: Why?

Is it just me, does nobody else have a well-developed scepticism like this?

[X] Doc CPU

H_TeXMeX_H 03-05-2012 05:44 AM

It's funny how someone can propose that nobody should give non-technical advice, and yet does it all the time.

k3lt01 03-05-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H (Post 4618774)
It's funny how someone can propose that nobody should give non-technical advice, and yet does it all the time.

Is your block list malfunctioning?

I haven't given advice that could have devastating effects on some ones life.

jeremy 03-05-2012 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3lt01 (Post 4618305)
I have a concern about people giving non technical non PC related advice in LQ. I have been watching medical advice being given in various threads that can, and I know this from personal experience, be quite dangerous. My worry is someone will do something and exacerbate any medical issue they may have, or maybe even cause more, because they have taken advice from an internet forum (one that isn't medical related to make it worse).

Members giving non-technical or non-PC related advice on LQ is certainly fine. That said, if you see advice that you legitimately think poses a medical risk (setting aside that no one should be taking medical advice from a Linux forum), please do use the Report button so a mod can evaluate the situation. You should also feel free to post your concerns in that thread.

--jeremy


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