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Old 09-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #31
johnsfine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
The question, phrased without euphemisms such as "politically incorrect", was "can I use LQ as a platform to express racist views?"
I don't think it is particularly polite to redefine someone's statement to their detriment. Maybe he said what he meant. I rarely find "politically incorrect" to be a good synonym for "racist".

Quote:
That question's been answered.
The relevant question I see answered in your posts 11 and 30, is does this forum allow the "correct" (meaning left) side in a political discussion a little more latitude to ridicule and mock the "incorrect" side than vice versa. The answer is "of course". This forum is mainly for discussing Linux. The rest is just a little socializing on the side, and with an apparently liberal majority, socializing is smoother with a liberal bias. Those of us who don't share that liberal bias have no expectation of a level playing field. If we were here primarily to discuss politics, especially if we were here for a fair discussion of politics, we would be in the wrong place.
 
Old 09-04-2013, 03:45 PM   #32
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsfine View Post
I don't think it is particularly polite to redefine someone's statement to their detriment. Maybe he said what he meant. I rarely find "politically incorrect" to be a good synonym for "racist".
Sorry, Johnsfine, but I understood exactly what he meant.

When someone leads with "I have politically incorrect views about the genocide of whites" (good lord), you already know their views have been informed. You also know that "politically incorrect" is widely used by (organized) racists as a euphemism for "racist". And that "preserving the white race... genocide of whites" is a common trope in those circles. Mr. Alex's comments need to be read in the context of the reality that these type of of people exist, and that they choose their words and frame their arguments the same way he's done.

A "serious discussion", in a political science or sociology context, would not require the "can I talk about Un-PC stuff here?" lead-in.

I am sorry that you've chosen, twice, to dismiss my recognition of this as "ridicule."

Last edited by dugan; 09-04-2013 at 07:11 PM.
 
Old 09-04-2013, 05:30 PM   #33
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Mr. Alex's comments need to be read in the context of the reality that these type of of people exist, and that this is how they choose their words and frame their arguments.
You read way to many things into what people say. Yes he used certain phrases that can be taken as offensive but that does not have to mean what you have indicated. There is another issue with this, you thinking that you have to spell it out for us all and bring it up again indicates that you want this to be the centre of this discussion.
 
Old 09-04-2013, 08:56 PM   #34
frankbell
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I looked at this thread yesterday and decided not to jump in.

I've reconsidered.

I grew up under Jim Crow in the segregated Southern USA.

I attended the "white" schools in a segregated school system, at least until my junior year, when my district slowly started to move towards integration.

I've seen a lot of changes, mostly for the better, in my lifetime.

It has been my experience that, when persons complain about having to be "politically correct," they are requesting permission to offensive without repercussion.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-05-2013, 12:21 AM   #35
Gedagtes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
...

I've seen a lot of changes, mostly for the better, in my lifetime.

It has been my experience that, when persons complain about having to be "politically correct," they are requesting permission to offensive without repercussion.
Regretfully I cantīs share those views. The PC brigade mostly choose to hide the truth under a veneer of smug pseudo knowledge and doubtful assumptions.

Also, where I am, the changes can hardly be said to have been for the better. Not that I have a desire to go back in time either.
 
Old 09-05-2013, 12:54 AM   #36
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
For example, can I talk here about race differences and nations' differences? About genocide of whites? About differences between men and women? About harm of immigration? Or will I be shut up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Of course, there are questions/topics which are very unsavory and best left not asked and not covered in public for many reasons. Don't think of it as the forum's fault tho, as you very unlikely to find a forum that will accept them without major ruckus.
www.stormfront.org and various other racist/neo-nazi forums are more than happy to have these sorts of 'questions' asked. Of couse, they are rarely if ever questions, its mostly just pointless (and badly researched) ranting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
It has been my experience that, when persons complain about having to be "politically correct," they are requesting permission to offensive without repercussion.
Generally, in my experence, yes. There are exceptions of course.
 
Old 09-05-2013, 06:19 AM   #37
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
[link]and various other racist/neo-nazi forums
Whoa.... what a den of bigotry and ignorance...
 
Old 09-05-2013, 09:38 AM   #38
jeremy
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All,

This thread is now getting seriously off topic. Please consider this the only warning; any future off-topic posts will result in the thread being closed. As always, thanks for the participation and feedback.

--jeremy
 
Old 09-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #39
Mr. Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierP View Post
At it's root, Political Correctness really means to be polite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTenths View Post
Well said!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedagtes View Post
Really good!! LOL
Also wanna mention that "political correctness" is not about politics and not about being correct at all. It's a pile of lies from top to bottom. It's also an idiology of mind control, tightly intertwined with totalitarian regime. It has nothing to do with politeness and brutally punishes those who don't accept this idiology. PC prevents thinking and analysing in the hard way, turning people into non-thinkers with ready answers about important things, more importnat than what to eat today. Those answears are wrong and so plain and simple that you can only facepalm. There are questions on which many intellectual and genious people wrote huge amount of books, and even if you read them all you still will be able to discover new things, but PC throws all that into garbage and gives you one plain and simple answer (which contraries truth) on these questions and forces you to follow them, shutting you up and forbidding to even talk about it. It's not "politeness".

People from Linux/UNIX community are expected to be smart and understand complicated things. Although, I have to admit that understandings of this kind are not given to anyone naturally these days. West is deeply infected with PC and to break PC's chains you have to really load your brain 100% for quite some time, because pressure of society is just way too strong. People are born and raised in this ideology, it's all they know about those questions. Fear of being judged also holds you back. Accepting this totalitarian idiology is the easiest way. It's a way of lie. Dealing with truth is way harder. Sometimes people suffer and die for truth.

If any Linux/UNIX guy here wants an example that is easy to understand, I can write a little scenario. We have an IT guy who is "nasty" traditionalist and a "progressive" PC which teaches to be "polite".

Confused IT guy: Hi. I want to choose an operating system to buy.
PC: Hello. These are what we have available. Choose whatever you want.
Confused IT guy: Hmm... I wonder which one suites my needs the best...
PC: What do you mean?
Confused IT guy: Well, I work with drawings, I need to scan a lot and edit in some professional software. Which OS is the best for these purposes?
PC: How dare you to say one OS is superior over another?! Are you OS-supremasist?!
Confused IT guy: Uh... What?
PC: You just said one OS might be inferrior to another! That's OS-supremasism and operating systemism!!!
Confused IT guy: Um... I don't understand you... Let me check these terms out in the Internet... By the way, it's a known fact that OSes differ in...
PC: THERE IS ONLY ONE OPERATING SYSTEM: A COMPUTER OPERATING SYSTEM!!! All those differences are in users' heads! All operating systems are equal! Are you a user from 18'th century? All users were operating systemists then. But we're a modern progressive society today and that's why we're anti-operating-systemists! Are you anti-operating-systemist? Oh! You better be!! Operating systemism will not be tolerated!
Confused IT guy: Here's some information I found in Yahoo: Windows is better for office, video, audio and design works. I guess I'll buy a box of Windows 7. Uh... I remember Yahoo once was a good search engine... Too bad Google is taking over the search industry, it's annoying...
PC: What a nonsence! Nobody is taking over noone! Everything is great about Yahoo and about Google and about all other search engines! All of them are living in great peace! It's just your crazy nonsense conspiracy alarmist ideas! Where do you get them from? Are you search enginist??
Confused IT guy: What's search...
PC: 'CAUSE ALL SEARCH ENGINES ARE EQUAL! THEY GIVE YOU EQUALL RESULTS IN YOUR SEARCHES AND LIVE IN GREAT PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING WITH EACH OTHER!!!
Confused IT guy: Really? Let me fire up some of them and see...
PC: STOP IT!!! STOP IT!!! SEARCH ENGINIST!!! I DON'T WANNA LISTEN TO YOU!! YOU'RE NASTY!! MY ISP IS GONNA CATCH ME!!
Confused IT guy: Chill out!... If you're really that concerned, I'll use my cell phone to connect to search engines. It's a different network, so they'll blame it on me.
PC: What do you mean by "different network"? All networks are equal, so there's only one network: a comupter network. So they'll blame it on me anyway!!!
Confused IT guy: Have you read any books on computer networks? Think before you say.
PC: You're nasty networkist!!! Those things do not fit into category of thinking! That's nasty cruel nonsence!
Confused IT guy: You know what... Enough of me. I'll just buy a box of Mandriva. How much?
PC: What did you say??? You can't say MANdriva!! It supresses women!! It's now called Linuxdriva!
Confused IT guy: No. It's MANdriva.
PC: (pushes the button under the table) Wow! Just wow! So much distributionism!

A thought police officer walks in.

Thought police: You are under arrest! You are guilty in: Windows supremasism, operating systemism, alarmism, search enginism, networkism, distributionism. You will be fired from your computer operator position, your boss is already signing papers as we speak; you are marked for all those *isms for all your life; this shop will charge you $5,000,000 for great insults. Follow me.

_____________


That's right, folks. In real life with real political correctness it's THAT ridiculous. In order to accept this idiology you have to dumb yourself down to such an extents that history probably never knew anything like this before. And if you accept this idiology, it will give you wrong and very primitive answers on very sophisticated and important questions and will force you to stop thinking, stop questioning, stop even talking about it.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-06-2013, 11:11 AM   #40
Mr. Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
This thread is now getting seriously off topic. Please consider this the only warning; any future off-topic posts will result in the thread being closed.
Well, I hope we can at least talk about political correctness itself...
 
Old 09-06-2013, 11:14 AM   #41
Mr. Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
various other racist/neo-nazi forums are more than happy...
Can you please give me clear and precise definition of terms "racist" and "nazi"? Without looking into Wikipedia or any other Web source.
 
Old 09-06-2013, 11:20 AM   #42
Mr. Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Yes he used certain phrases that can be taken as offensive...
That's an interesting hint... But I can't solve it. I give up. Who did I offend by saying "genocide of whites"?
 
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #43
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
It's not. Really, why? If you said it doesn't, you have to explain yourself. Otherwise it looks even less thought-out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Can you please give me clear and precise definition of terms "racist" and "nazi"? Without looking into Wikipedia or any other Web source.
Will you please stop trying to troll people giving you an opening that you can use to justify violating the rules?

Last edited by dugan; 09-06-2013 at 11:30 AM.
 
Old 09-10-2013, 02:00 PM   #44
jeremy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Well, I hope we can at least talk about political correctness itself...
For clarification sake; you are certainly free to talk about political correctness itself (and any other topic that doesn't explicitly break the hopefully clearly defined LQ rules). That said, this thread was closed as a result of my very clear warning in post #38.

As for the following response to dugan asking "Let Jeremy know if you have a problem with that.":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Alex View Post
Like it will change anything.
I hope I've proven over the course of LQ's history that I take all member feedback seriously and very often make changes to policy, code, rules, features and other aspects of LQ based on that feedback.

--jeremy
 
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