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Old 12-20-2002, 01:57 PM   #31
DavidPhillips
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The new microsoft policy is to sell companies a "time license" only. It will expire, they will not be able to update the license because the software will be "no longer supported". They will have no alternative.

I also have NT4 server and Wks. It is in my opinion the best OS Microsoft made, and it will always work.

However it is not available any more. The new Microsoft deal will also affect documents created with your software. Not only will the software expire, but the documents you have created with it will expire and will need to be reregistered.
 
Old 12-21-2002, 06:33 PM   #32
balam
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well the issue of linux harder than windows , I do not think so. linux is differtent.
and shure that has pro and cons. but if you really know your staff, you will find linux as a real os.
I mean how good is a mail, or file server that is set up in 5 minutes using wizards and only will work for 2 hours and then will crash or you will reboot to fix it.

I rather spend 2 days setting a server and forget it, than use a Os full of wizards and right clicks .

I am a Mcsa and I find windows anoying and burring , windows is not a challange to learn.
 
Old 12-21-2002, 06:46 PM   #33
Mephisto
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I also work with Domino for my day job. Setting up a Linux box properly is not any harder than setting up a Domino domain properly. Both have a learning curve. You can't just pull Domino out of the box and install a Domain with Replication, SMTP, mail routing, etc..

The key word is properly though. Linux is less likely to allow you to do something "close enough" and then tweak it later. Same problem with Windows IMHO, you can set it up quickly, pretty brainless to maintain. But it takes a bit more work to secure it properly then many MS admins bother doing.

Last edited by Mephisto; 12-21-2002 at 06:47 PM.
 
Old 12-21-2002, 07:30 PM   #34
balam
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more of

thanks for you input
I also work with lotus notes and domino servers ( castus)
and with w2k servers, so many problems , someany reboots,
so easy to set , so easy to break,
we try to cluster windows ( big mistake) does not work, more the two windwos nodes windows fails ( as usually)
so we implement linux, so far non problem. working great.
and only cost to us a download. ( free)
 
Old 12-24-2002, 01:20 AM   #35
rosko
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balam,
Domino is solid as a rock on windows, Please don't sit here and tell me linux is more stable with domino, that's just obsurd. I may not know a lot about linux, but I do about domino. It's a pain to setup right for some people, but for me it works perfectly.

Domino blows almost any other application server away for security....why do you think IBM uses it? Not just because it's their own product. The CIA uses it too .

Granted, if you don't know how to set it up on windows, don't blame windows. You should look in the mirror if your server is crashing with winnt/2k/domino. It's not the OS, it's the guy setting it up or poor hardware. Most tests have shown linux with domino falling way behind the performance of win2k (this isn't a fault of linux, but domino was originally designed for windows or IBM specific servers. They ported R5 to linux a while after the first release. I'm not talking about linux monkeys doing the tests, I'm talking about actual benchmarks from the Notes.net team.

So please don't give another windows sux...linux is the bomb story when it isn't the case with the specific software you are talking about. I'd hate for someone to read a post like this and go the wrong direction for a solution...because someone is spouting off.
 
Old 12-24-2002, 10:25 AM   #36
Anjan
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Question

Quote:
Originally posted by rosko
Most tests have shown linux with domino falling way behind the performance of win2k (this isn't a fault of linux, but domino was originally designed for windows or IBM specific servers. They ported R5 to linux a while after the first release. I'm not talking about linux monkeys doing the tests,...
Ok Rosko, let's see a link here with the results you claim to have seen. I want to see how IBM "monkeys" ran this test. You must be a Sys Admin because no developer would say an application being "originally developed for" a particular operating system. When an application is ported (and if the porting is done correctly) it is guided by the constraints of the operating system running it. That logic and precedent set by Microsoft dictates that Domino will not be as efficient running on Windows as Outlook is. Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that a company like IBM that is putting so much weight behind linux will develop a program that makes Linux look like a second class citizen.

Anjan
 
Old 12-25-2002, 01:16 AM   #37
rosko
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Ok you asked for it...

http://www-10.lotus.com/ldd/today.ns...hlight=0,linux

TID BIT________________________________
And what about Windows 2000? Highlight some of the benefits and drawbacks of using it with Domino.

We have this technology within Domino called threadpools, which is supported by the operating system with I/O Completion Ports. We designed that for NT, and it’s great because it boosts Domino’s scalability and a little bit on the performance side as well. And that continues to work fine in the Windows 2000 environment.

As far as drawbacks, if you are comparing performance then Linux (with the 2.2.x kernel) does not compare well with the other UNIX systems. It also does not compare very well with Windows 2000 right now because Linux is still maturing as an enterprise-class operating system. The reality is that Linux as an enterprise-class server is only now starting to come into its own.

Would customers ever consider running Domino on both Windows 2000 and Linux?
Kenneth Brunsen
Yes, because they will have some administrators who are better with Windows and some who are better with Linux. The other thing is, say I have a smaller company. Well, I'm going to run Linux, because it has the lowest price. If I grow and find that I can afford more, but Linux still is not scaling to that extent yet—say I have 2,000 users—I may have to go to Windows for that.

About Kenneth Brunsen
Kenneth is a principal software engineer at Iris Associates. He has been working on the Domino product since the beginnings of the R4 client/server, and his major responsibilities concern Domino server platforms and Domino core services. In his spare time, he does such things as porting the Domino server to Linux and creating and maintaining his own LAN at home. When he is not working on these things, he can either be found with his wife Susan doing various leisure- or home-oriented stuff or playing Everquest.


Granted this is not tested with 2.4.....but I hope you see.

Thanks for insulting my integrity...

Last edited by rosko; 12-25-2002 at 01:30 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 11:08 AM   #38
rovertus
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Sure there is a learning curve getting your system going, but that's just it, you're learning. Certainly you could get a MS product on your system straight out of the box in a few hours hosting but you have no idea what they have running! A few months down the road you have the FBI step in complaining how XP is a security risk, or Plug-N-Play will compromise your system. Furthermore anytime you do anything on your Win box you are going to be pumping that reset button where with hosting with linux the daemons allow me to say I haven't downed my server in months! You're totally right Windows will take care of you. And that's a great alternative for some people. But if you are hosting having a deeper knowledge to what is going on is always a plus. You only get that in time-on-server!
 
Old 07-28-2003, 11:14 AM   #39
rosko
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Learning curve isn't the problem. I can learn anything you throw in my face. The problem is the time, and time is what businesses are racing against. MS gives you a huge advantage in time to deploy, time to administer etc etc. And with windows 2003 server now out, it's incredible what you can do with it. Also, don't say the "uptime" is higher on linux because no matter what platform you use, the uptime can be high if you know what you are doing. As far as not knowing what is running, I know exactly what is running on my 2003 server, and it runs quite a bit faster than any OS around right now.

Free is what linux has going for it, and I think that's the way it will stay for the most part. I hope it doesn't get too corrupted by the big guys, like IBM etc.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 11:53 AM   #40
mrhyde
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http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/tcp3/
Alright rosko, here are a couple of books, " help for unix system administrators " should help dry up your tears. I am originally an NT 4.0 administrator, I now administer both NT and Linux, there are different tools for every job! You said you use qmail, " lifewithqmail.org " author Dave Sill also published a book on the topic, it's far more in depth than the web guide, it might answer a few questions for you. I agree with what you are saying, though, I have deployed a mix of MS NT and Linux / UNIX, I found the installation of linux to be ready out of the box.

Last edited by mrhyde; 07-28-2003 at 12:03 PM.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 12:00 PM   #41
rosko
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I use extremail now for linux...thx though....oh, and I didn't need a book to administer it.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 12:08 PM   #42
mrhyde
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good luck on your quest for an easy life!!
 
Old 07-28-2003, 12:10 PM   #43
rosko
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Easy is subjective. If you have money, MS makes life easy.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 12:15 PM   #44
Devboy
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okay i only read to about 5posts download there was to much to read, but from what im getting is rosko that you want a system that you can install stuff on easy but yet is stable yes? well have fun finding one you could always use windows 2000pro witch is the best windows o/s out. but linux is ment to the advanced users who dont mind playing with code but you seem to hate playing with the code adding hacks etc well i would suggest you go back to windows if thats the way you feal, I myself am an advanced user on windows but got very bored of it basic look couldent do much onit theres files hidden that dont show when you show all files etc window SUX, but i decided to give linux a shot and i liked it sometimes i dont because sometimes you need more lib's etc but ive only been on it 4days and alreadt like it its stable fun and loads of good stuff for it no hidden files etc what you see is what you get!. but i would suggest you go back to windows or look into other linux distrobutors.

Last edited by Devboy; 07-28-2003 at 12:16 PM.
 
Old 07-28-2003, 12:22 PM   #45
rosko
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Nice grammar , what are you 8yrs old?

I really don't want this to be a debate, lets try to put this thread to rest and not get all fired up.

Try windows 2003 server when you get a chance (and give it a chance). You may be surprised.
 
  


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