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Old 02-21-2014, 05:47 AM   #5206
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touch21st View Post
various of antiviruses
I think you won't need AV's which are geared to catching Windows viruses when running Linux. This thread already shows just how difficult it is to get a windows program to run on Linux. I'd imagine a virus has the same trouble. Unless you're using your Linux as a manual firewall - i.e. all downloads first checked before copying to Windows.

That's not to say that you might not find viruses created specifically for Linux. You do get Linux specific AV's: I know you get Linux versions of BitDefender, AVG and Avast, also the Open Source ClamWin: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/free-li...irus-programs/

What these do offer is to check stuff like downloaded files for Windows viruses before you allow your Windows machine to even know they're there.

Then if you don't like free AVs, you could also buy Eset's: http://www.eset.co.za/za/business/pr...tivirus-linux/

They've even got a uni-license so you can use the same license on a dual/multi-boot PC. I.e. no need to buy 3 licenses so you can have Win + OSX + Linux.
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:46 PM   #5207
touch21st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
I think you won't need AV's which are geared to catching Windows viruses when running Linux. This thread already shows just how difficult it is to get a windows program to run on Linux. I'd imagine a virus has the same trouble. Unless you're using your Linux as a manual firewall - i.e. all downloads first checked before copying to Windows.

That's not to say that you might not find viruses created specifically for Linux. You do get Linux specific AV's: I know you get Linux versions of BitDefender, AVG and Avast, also the Open Source ClamWin: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/free-li...irus-programs/

What these do offer is to check stuff like downloaded files for Windows viruses before you allow your Windows machine to even know they're there.

Then if you don't like free AVs, you could also buy Eset's: http://www.eset.co.za/za/business/pr...tivirus-linux/

They've even got a uni-license so you can use the same license on a dual/multi-boot PC. I.e. no need to buy 3 licenses so you can have Win + OSX + Linux.
pls check the reports about Linux viruses
 
Old 02-22-2014, 03:41 AM   #5208
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touch21st View Post
pls check the reports about Linux viruses
Linux is definitely NOT immune, I NEVER said so ... read my post carefully. But chances are that the same binary code of a particular virus which infects a Windows machine will not even run on a Linux machine. Some scripting stuff might be exceptions (e.g. a JS virus inside a web page running on FireFox).

My point is, running an AV designed to catch Windows viruses on Linux (either ported to Linux or through Wine) is not going to catch Linux type viruses, so it would be pointless to make something like Microsoft Security Essentials work on Linux. And those it does catch (i.e. Windows viruses) will probably not have affected your Linux machine in any case.

So what's needed is a Linux-specific AV, and that's exactly what I linked to. All those are looking for the binary codes of Linux-specific viruses. Most add the additional feature of checking for Windows- / Mac-specific viruses wile they're at it in any case. So if your download / email attachment / whatever else contains a virus which will only affect the machine if it ws running a different OS - these should even catch those viruses. The AV's you get for Windows don't even state that they also check for Linux / Mac specific viruses - IMO that (while not meaning they don't) means you can't trust that they'll also keep your Linux healthy.
 
Old 02-22-2014, 07:57 AM   #5209
touch21st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
Linux is definitely NOT immune, I NEVER said so ... read my post carefully. But chances are that the same binary code of a particular virus which infects a Windows machine will not even run on a Linux machine. Some scripting stuff might be exceptions (e.g. a JS virus inside a web page running on FireFox).

My point is, running an AV designed to catch Windows viruses on Linux (either ported to Linux or through Wine) is not going to catch Linux type viruses, so it would be pointless to make something like Microsoft Security Essentials work on Linux. And those it does catch (i.e. Windows viruses) will probably not have affected your Linux machine in any case.

So what's needed is a Linux-specific AV, and that's exactly what I linked to. All those are looking for the binary codes of Linux-specific viruses. Most add the additional feature of checking for Windows- / Mac-specific viruses wile they're at it in any case. So if your download / email attachment / whatever else contains a virus which will only affect the machine if it ws running a different OS - these should even catch those viruses. The AV's you get for Windows don't even state that they also check for Linux / Mac specific viruses - IMO that (while not meaning they don't) means you can't trust that they'll also keep your Linux healthy.
Wht can't the antiviruses for Linux detect the viruses on Windows? I've tried the Linux edition of dr. web, NOD32, clamav, COMODO, F-prot, AVG and so forth. And I don't like the MS antivirus much.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 04:07 AM   #5210
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touch21st View Post
Wht can't the antiviruses for Linux detect the viruses on Windows?
They can, and that's mainly what they're used for since viruses on Linux are rare because of 4 reasons (see later).

It's the windows AV's which can't check for Linux viruses, since you'd hardly ever find someone with a setup where the windows machine is a server for their Linux machines - it would be the other way round in nearly every instance.

Reasons viruses aren't as troublesome on Linux as they are on Windows:
  1. Linux isn't as prevalent as Windows (at least not as Desktop end-user OSs) so virus writers don't target it (as much) - no a good reason, but does mean the web isn't riddled with Linux specific viruses as it is with Windows specific ones.
    1. Usually Linux viruses are targeted to servers, trying to place themselves there so they can infect the Windows machines which are linked to them.
    2. As more Linux Desktops become prevalent, you might find more and more viruses trying to infect Linux desktops.
    3. This can already be seen by the recent spate of Android viruses (Android being a modified Linux, as is iOS a modified BSD) and on many a smart-phone - so a virus writer can target millions by making an Android /iOSmalware. That's also why there's so many AV's for smart-phones - even on their "App Stores". Hardly any on a Linux repository, e.g. on my Kubuntu's repository the only one listed is Clam AV and its associated ClamTk graphical interface.
  2. Linux comes in various flavours. E.g. an RPM (e.g. RedHat/Fedora) won't (easily) start on a DEB Linux (e.g. Debian/Ubuntu). There are ways, but they're manual and would require you to (at least) type in the root password.
    1. Nearly every EXE/MSI runs fine on nearly every Windows version.
    2. Makes it easier for virus writers to make one virus to rule all Windows. But more difficult to make one which infects all Linuxes.
  3. Most programs you install in Linux is through package managers (same principle as App Stores, only this was where the idea came from).
    1. These come from repositories which are regularly checked by others, and a mal-acting program would be seen as such quite quickly.
    2. Before installing it read the comments on your package manager (e.g. Synaptic / Muon / Sofware Center / etc.) regarding that program. Nothing is perfect, so bad programs might fall through the cracks and become listed on a repo, but check what others have said about it - if no-one's commented, check how many have downloaded / installed it - try not to be the first guinea pig.
    3. On Windows you usually Google for the EXE/MSI file which you download from just anywhere - much harder to find comments about the programs available over the entire internet than from a specific repository. I.e. it's as if you're always the first guinea pig to use this program, since you hardly ever see comments about it from others.
    4. It is possible to add other repositories, but that you also need to do manually - in which case, again do research before adding.
  4. Linux's security features are more robust and strong than Windows.
    1. You need to manually give something permission to do a dangerous action. E.g. sudo will ask for the root password, when installing from a package manager you're also asked for your password.
    2. Windows only recently started having UAC security measures (since Vista) - which most users still circumvent because it's so convoluted and/or causes programs not to run properly. So in very many Win installations all that's required from a user to run a bad EXE/MSI is a mouse click.
All that said, you might want to read up some. Don't believe everything you see on web pages, sometimes a web page might influence you to install their "AV" by fear-mongering and what you then actually are doing is installing their mal-ware (e.g. phising / ad-ware / spy-ware / etc.).

This ties in with point 3 above - I try never to install anything which isn't in my distro's repository. And if I'm forced to (e.g. program not available there) I do as much research on it beforehand as I possibly can. NEVER simply download a RPM/DEB and follow the command-line copy-paste "install instructions" unless you're certain it's not going to screw your system. Try to understand what those commands do.

If your Linux is used as a server (file/web/email/ftp/etc), then adding an AV targeted on windows viruses makes sense in that you are actually trying to protect your vulnerable windows machines. But for most Linux desktops/laptops/other, AVs aren't as needed as they are on Windows. You can add them if you wish, but do so with the same principles as if they're any other type of program - i.e. try to make sure that the AV isn't in fact the virus itself.

Here's a writeup which actually discourages most of these AVs: http://www.howtogeek.com/135392/htg-...d-when-you-do/

To me personally, I like being somewhere in between. I'll run an AV on my desktop (sure - be that Windows/Linux/some-arb-OS-which-isn't-listed-here), but as soon as it starts to become a hindrance I see it as malware. I'll try to stop bad stuff through a firewall instead of pop-ups taking my attention away from my actual work. And I am of the school which says: "The user is the best Anti Virus in that he/she can avoid being stupid by opening just any old thing".
 
Old 02-23-2014, 06:22 AM   #5211
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touch21st View Post
Zonealarm, BlackICE, various of antiviruses, Line, QQ,
Another you might want to read up on: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10373...ware-installed

What I would suggest (even more important than an AV) is to use a firewall. Most Linuxes come with at least some firewall. If you want to fine-tune it and don't like the CLI install gufw from your distro's package manager - that's a graphical interface to setup and control the built-in firewall

Edit: And here's another list of AV's if you want: http://www.reviewsaurus.com/blogging...r-linux-users/

Last edited by irneb; 02-23-2014 at 06:32 AM.
 
Old 02-24-2014, 01:30 AM   #5212
sunnydrake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
They can, and that's mainly what they're used for since viruses on Linux are rare because of 4 reasons
It's the windows AV's which can't check for Linux viruses, since you'd hardly ever find someone with a setup where the windows machine is a server for their Linux machines - it would be the other way round in nearly every instance.
wrong, one of AV parts is code signature detection which is platform independent.
#2 On real production linux servers viruses are pia(web hosting). But it's mainly localized and related to inproper and unsecure setups of 3rd party software.
To the list:
*) please first check corresponding wikipedia page on desktop pc platforms where survey numbers displayed. Machine count is good, but a weak argument in base. Platform is secured or not, how many of known virus systems can gain system access on newest version of this operating system etc.. this is a real measurable data.
*) good viruses are complex systems that have code for each platform/version and even create networks, they not target specific platforms as servers only as network node which role can change(aka botnets)
*) yes there is virus market
*) Android viruses mainly exploit android OS which is not a linux kernel.. in two worlds its relative easy to infect system + with bad average user habits usualy it comes with app apk.
*)different linux distro/ package systems. actually this is good.. but does not play vital role for virus makers as on linux desktops usually target is already installed and runtime software.
*) EXE/MSI wrong... it work only in one direction(and not always) "older version programm/exe/msi runs on currently supported by MS OS"
*) oookay.. did you wrote even one virus or saw code? i see not. virus are targeted by design on specific exploits set and use it where it possible.
*) even apple had to delete some virus infested apps from own market. Some virus after gaining access to system infect it whole. package managers have no ability to track such actions.
 
Old 02-24-2014, 08:01 PM   #5213
smd0665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
I can't understand what they're trying to do ... Linux has many similar (if not better) remote connection alternatives, some command-line only (for things like remote server admin) others with graphical interface and/or shared desktop. It can even work with the same remote desktoping protocol which is built-into newer windows (if you install something like rdesktop).

This is actually something where Linux was decades ahead of any Microsoft product. Since the earliest times of Unix the very idea behind it was to use the system from somewhere remote. Only lately (last 10 or so years) has Windows gotten this afterthought RDP protocol.
Yes, that guy was pretty useless. Fortunately, I was eventually able to find someone who could help me and everything is working fine now.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 01:55 AM   #5214
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydrake View Post
wrong, one of AV parts is code signature detection which is platform independent....
OK, I will concede that point. What I tried to explain is that the AV's written for WINDOWs do not STATE that they also check for Linux malware, but some of the AVs written to run on LINUX do state that they check for Windows malware in addition to Linux. It might be possible for the Windows AV to also check for Linux stuff, but from my experience: if a ":manufacturer" doesn't advertise that their product has a certain feature, then chances are that it doesn't.

The point of the thread is to get programs which are running on Windows to also run on Linux. Then touch21st asked about "various of antiviruses". I should probably not have gone into this depth (as it's clouding the entire reason for the thread).

Simply put: No you don't want an AV written to work on Windows to simply be ported to Linux. You'd rather want an AV specifically written for Linux instead, and that is exactly what I linked to (various reports on AV's available for Linux).

The rest of the posts are superfluous and should probably be moved to a different thread.

Last edited by irneb; 02-25-2014 at 01:56 AM.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 04:52 PM   #5215
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There's no reason to use Windows.
An alternative solution in Linux/*nix always seems to exist. Sometime it may mean changing your habbits. Which is a good thing.

I've all but completely abandoned Windows. The next stop for me I guess will be to abandon IT entirely.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 05:04 PM   #5216
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Alternative maybe but viable not always
 
Old 02-25-2014, 05:32 PM   #5217
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxbawks View Post
There's no reason to use Windows.
An alternative solution in Linux/*nix always seems to exist. Sometime it may mean changing your habbits. Which is a good thing.

I've all but completely abandoned Windows. The next stop for me I guess will be to abandon IT entirely.
If you have to use a specific Windows software for your work, for whatever reason, changing your habits is not an option.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 05:51 PM   #5218
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So let me put it another way. Why would you change your behaviour if a parallel solution, or close approximation, to Windows existed in Linux/*nix? There is no reason to. I was eluding to a way to try and introduce an intermediate step to bridge the gap between whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish and what's readily available.

If you plan to use a 'PC', be prepared to write your own software as a final and ultimate contingency. Otherwise try and do your serious work on your iPhone or iPad.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 05:57 PM   #5219
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxbawks View Post
Why would you change your behaviour if a parallel solution, or close approximation, to Windows existed in Linux/*nix? There is no reason to.
For example due to company policy: If you have to use a specific OS, either due to company policy (you can use your own machine, but we will only allow Windows 7 in our network) or due to using a company owned machine with Windows (which is still the standard in most companies) you have no choice at all. The same is true when you have to use a specific software for your work (let's say Visual Studio, Dreamweaver, ...) for whatever reason. You may try it with Wine, but I would never rely on that software for an important or even essential workflow. It may even simply come down to you wanting to play a game that does not work with Wine and has no native Linux version.

In short: There are valid reasons to use Windows.
 
Old 02-25-2014, 06:11 PM   #5220
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In that case you are correct but, work is work. You should use the tools supported on the platform there for compliance reasons.
If you don't like the platform or tools employed there then people should feel free to leave. Working on OSS projects is always an option. GNU always needs good people.
 
  


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