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Old 09-17-2011, 02:32 AM   #4606
johnh10000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDphreak View Post
Windows. It's the best. I want to use Windows on Linux. Please make it work!

OK, my noobish troll post is out of my system! Now, on to the real post:

I would like to see all of the industrial software running on GNU/Linux, including 3D modeling programs like NX, and professional art programs like Photoshop and Corel Draw.

I would also like to see Linux progress past its archaic habits and into the modern computing world. Command line programs are good and necessary, but they are NOT an end-product in 2011. Linux needs market support to thrive. It is being held back by lack of market adoption.

Thanks
AMDphreak
Well as we do need to sometimes, need to run winxx software, a couple of solutions!

wine, in most repos now, I think, on Ubuntu works out of the box!
http://www.winehq.org/

Or a paid for version, crossover which I find is more robust, there is a demo on the site.
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/

I think you will find most servers are running command line only setups, as the gui (graphic user interface) only slows them down!
 
Old 09-17-2011, 02:43 AM   #4607
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDphreak View Post
Windows. It's the best. I want to use Windows on Linux. Please make it work!

OK, my noobish troll post is out of my system! Now, on to the real post:

I would like to see all of the industrial software running on GNU/Linux, including 3D modeling programs like NX, and professional art programs like Photoshop and Corel Draw.

I would also like to see Linux progress past its archaic habits and into the modern computing world. Command line programs are good and necessary, but they are NOT an end-product in 2011. Linux needs market support to thrive. It is being held back by lack of market adoption.

Thanks
AMDphreak
I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you want a graphical event driven interface for every setting in Linux? I thought most of that was already there. That's why there's distributions like Ubuntu which "automates" all those CL tasks using something very similar to WinLooze's Control Panel. It's just that most of the online help you'd find shows CL ways of "fixing" things in *nix. Actually if you want to "fix" "strange" stuff in W you'd probably also find CL / Registry hacks.

AFAIK the "Problem" is when someone does a tutorial on getting Linux up and running, but starts showing CL. I've seen some of these out there, and I always get highly upset because of it. CL is great for fast and efficient setting up. It's even a very simple task of copy-n-paste, if you don't want to be bothered by "understanding" what's going on. But for the mass user such a tutorial would appear to be written for Kligons! Immediately they feel, this "whole" OS is meant for programmers only! So they stop just there and revert back to the cosy WinBlows interface they know and hate.

A perfect sample of this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06...e_3/page2.html

In that tutorial, the writer's trying to explain how to get stuff like Flash & MP3's to work in Ubuntu. Yet he's showing CL! It's as if he didn't even know that Ubuntu has a Application Manager with a search box where the user could have typed Flash and it would show all available apps for install by one click. As soon as most users see that word sudo on a page they close it. If he did a few screen captures of Ubuntu's Synaptic he'd have gotten 1000's more takers.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-17-2011, 09:15 AM   #4608
MTK358
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The reason the most Linux tutorials are command line is because:
  • It's easier to write, as opposed to "Click Here->This Button->That Button->Some Tab->Example Menu Item".
  • It's more or less standard on all Linux distros. GUIs, on the other hand, are different depending on what desktop or distro you use, and can even change over time.
  • (This is more of a subproblem of the above problem) The writer of the tutorial has to happen to be familiar with all the different GUIs that exist to be able to write a GUI tutorial. Also, people who are advanced enough with Linux to be able to teach people about it have likely "grown out" of configuration GUIs and use the command line anyway.
 
Old 09-17-2011, 05:42 PM   #4609
bugman
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Bio-Remote2

Ran across this recently: http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/event/bio-remote2/
Would love if the server was ported to Linux. Currently using Gmote, but it
lacks what bio-remote2 can do.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-17-2011, 06:06 PM   #4610
deltabravo
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Location: The birthplace of the Industrial Revolution
Distribution: Puppy, Suse, Mepis, Ubuntu, DSL, Tinycore, Microcore, Slitaz(almost)
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Dosbox

Hello Rich, I do have Dosbox on my system but it will not run Bannermania or a 555 timer simulation either. They both will not run in Wine either, maybe someday I will find a program to run them, kind regards,Bob.
 
Old 09-17-2011, 10:43 PM   #4611
AMDphreak
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To be clear, the first part of my post was a prank. I was pretending to be an uneducated "Linux fanboi". I know I don't have many posts on LQ, but I do in fact know alot about software, Linux, GNU, Microsoft, Apple, Windows, OS X, operating system design, business, legal and licensing systems, etc. I also hate Windows. I wish it would be usurped by a professional operating system. Currently OS X is even more professional than Windows but is also plagued by many problems due to its faulty licensing and customer-abuse business model. I am pretty well educated. I have not, however, contributed to any collaborative or open source programming projects. I find it impossible to bring myself up to speed on all the separate libraries and the development environments for open source code. Additionally, my computer is a minefield of bad driver support in Linux, so I get too frustrated and anxious when trying to make headway in learning how to contribute. I plan to buy a better-supported desktop in the future when I have money (poor college kid).

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnh10000 View Post
Well as we do need to sometimes, need to run winxx software, a couple of solutions!

wine, in most repos now, I think, on Ubuntu works out of the box!
http://www.winehq.org/

Or a paid for version, crossover which I find is more robust, there is a demo on the site.
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover/

I think you will find most servers are running command line only setups, as the gui (graphic user interface) only slows them down!
I plan on buying Crossover when I get a stable Linux operating system. As I mentioned above, driver support for my Linux hardware is crappy (because the hardware developers are snobbish and won't release my hardwares' specs). The two most outstanding cases I have are:
1. my wireless card: PCI-E 2.0 D-Link (Atheros) 802.11B/G/N card. Ath9k driver sucks for PCI-E devices, and I can't find compat-wireless because wireless.kernel.org was destroyed conveniently a week before I tried to fix my drivers. I don't have PCI on my mobo (it is a Micro-ATX), and all of my USB ports are currently stuffed.
2. my graphics card: Radeon HD 5670. The best price/performance ratio when I bought it about a year ago. It has DisplayPort which I was really excited about (I wish the market would pay more attention to DP, because it kicks HDMI's butt and can even transport HDMI signals and then output them through an HDMI adapter). Needless to say, the open source driver has severe glitches and low performance, and the proprietary FGLRX driver is just as slow with horrid OpenGL support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you want a graphical event driven interface for every setting in Linux? I thought most of that was already there. That's why there's distributions like Ubuntu which "automates" all those CL tasks using something very similar to WinLooze's Control Panel. It's just that most of the online help you'd find shows CL ways of "fixing" things in *nix. Actually if you want to "fix" "strange" stuff in W you'd probably also find CL / Registry hacks.

AFAIK the "Problem" is when someone does a tutorial on getting Linux up and running, but starts showing CL. I've seen some of these out there, and I always get highly upset because of it. CL is great for fast and efficient setting up. It's even a very simple task of copy-n-paste, if you don't want to be bothered by "understanding" what's going on. But for the mass user such a tutorial would appear to be written for Kligons! Immediately they feel, this "whole" OS is meant for programmers only! So they stop just there and revert back to the cosy WinBlows interface they know and hate.

A perfect sample of this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06...e_3/page2.html

In that tutorial, the writer's trying to explain how to get stuff like Flash & MP3's to work in Ubuntu. Yet he's showing CL! It's as if he didn't even know that Ubuntu has a Application Manager with a search box where the user could have typed Flash and it would show all available apps for install by one click. As soon as most users see that word sudo on a page they close it. If he did a few screen captures of Ubuntu's Synaptic he'd have gotten 1000's more takers.
Well, the problem is that the typical Linux project is ONLY command-line, and graphical front-ends are usually nonexistent or hard to find, often don't work except on that developer's favorite distribution, are often poorly done and poorly integrated, because GTK is too simplistic in terms of GUI controls (meaning its ontology is anemic). Also, CLI programs are like black boxes to an end-user. CLI's give no hint about how the program behaves, meaning you are dealing with a black box. If they do include documentation, then you end up having to read a book's worth of documentation just to do something simple. When you have 3000 different command-line programs, this is unmanageable and deters users and developers from using and contributing to the 3000 different half-baked open source projects.

Open source projects are very difficult to keep track of and often times three or four different projects are made to do the same thing, and all of them fall short of delivering a comprehensive solution. It is impossible to have a comprehensive knowledge of open source software because it is not cohesive or methodical; it is rather schizophrenic in nature. This is a huge problem, and I've been conceptualizing in my free time on how to bring some organization to the open source scene.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-18-2011, 04:32 AM   #4612
irneb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
The reason the most Linux tutorials are command line is because:
  • It's easier to write, as opposed to "Click Here->This Button->That Button->Some Tab->Example Menu Item".
  • It's more or less standard on all Linux distros. GUIs, on the other hand, are different depending on what desktop or distro you use, and can even change over time.
  • (This is more of a subproblem of the above problem) The writer of the tutorial has to happen to be familiar with all the different GUIs that exist to be able to write a GUI tutorial. Also, people who are advanced enough with Linux to be able to teach people about it have likely "grown out" of configuration GUIs and use the command line anyway.
You've basically iterated the "usual" excuses. I'd have "thought" at least the distro's would provide some basic tutorials to use their own GUI's. But even there it's hard to find (if at all available). IMO it's one of the major reasons why Linux is "still failing" ... let's face it, *nix is still just a niche OS. And until most users can start to feel confident about using it it will stay such. They won't feel confident about CLI ... ever! I love CLI's "power" and "performance", I've grown up from the DOS days and still revert to a CMD window on Windows when there's simply not a nice / easy / fast / efficient interface for what I want to achieve. But when I have to show a less-than-programmer how to setup something like (say) network access to a server, I wouldn't go and explain Windows's CLI version of NET USE to them now would I? They'd get this cloudy substance in their eyes as soon as I pressed the WinKey+R and typed CMD<Enter> . While their eyes might not achieve a "sparkling" effect when I open the Network Neighbourhood and browse to the domain / server / share and right-click, it would at least not cloud over as much .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDphreak View Post
To be clear, the first part of my post was a prank.
Thought as much . I'm also trying to show how an uneducated "Linux fanboi" would react. The point I'm trying to make in my winding (non-organized manner ) is that it's a question of the chicken or the egg. Those drivers you're referring to is a prime example. The hw / sw houses won't invest their time in a small niche where their profits might be non-existent. And until a great many users start actually using a platform, such profits will keep on being non-existent. But until there's a "cosy" interface for the masses these users will stick with what they're used to, even if they despise it - to them it's rather a Devil you know than something which even Mephistopheles has problems understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDphreak View Post
Open source projects are very difficult to keep track of and often times three or four different projects are made to do the same thing, and all of them fall short of delivering a comprehensive solution. It is impossible to have a comprehensive knowledge of open source software because it is not cohesive or methodical; it is rather schizophrenic in nature. This is a huge problem, and I've been conceptualizing in my free time on how to bring some organization to the open source scene.
True! I seem to find hundreds of possible projects if I search on something like sourceforge. Each does something really well, but falls short on other items. You start finding that project A does point X like nobody's business, but for doing point Y you're better off with project B. In the back of your mind you start thinking: "If only the developers of these 2/3/4/.../1mil projects would amalgamate their efforts the result might be one awesome program which could kick a$$ on all fronts."

At least there are some which seem to get it right. E.g. Ubuntu might not be the best distro out there, but it (and its ilk) make users a bit less itchy when they actually have to use it. I think such distros are a step in the right direction. But when the tutorials revert to 50's model CLI interfaces, that step is less than tentative to say the least.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-18-2011, 06:36 AM   #4613
topquark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
thanks, i don't know why but i thought it wasn't available.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 09:35 PM   #4614
AaZmaNd
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Media Player Classic Home Cinema
 
Old 09-22-2011, 07:06 AM   #4615
knunni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedeedoos View Post
SPSS .. It's a program for statistical analysis... though many things can be done in OpenOffice.org I haven't found any specific statistics program for linux that's interoperable with SPSS (university requirement)

so yes, SPSS would be on the top of my list

Though I have not used it I would suggest you to try "R" software for statistical analysis as it is freely downloadable and would be helpful to a lot of researchers and students. It is available for UNIX and LINUX also
 
Old 09-23-2011, 12:45 AM   #4616
Always_Learning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knunni View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedeedoos View Post
SPSS .. It's a program for statistical analysis... though many things can be done in OpenOffice.org I haven't found any specific statistics program for linux that's interoperable with SPSS (university requirement)

so yes, SPSS would be on the top of my list
Though I have not used it I would suggest you to try "R" software for statistical analysis as it is freely downloadable and would be helpful to a lot of researchers and students. It is available for UNIX and LINUX also
Wow, that was an old post you replied to (2003). OP might be better trying PSPP, a free replacement for SPSS that even supports some of its proprietary file formats, http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/
 
Old 09-23-2011, 03:02 AM   #4617
edday1258
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spss

Quote:
Originally Posted by knunni View Post
Though I have not used it I would suggest you to try "R" software for statistical analysis as it is freely downloadable and would be helpful to a lot of researchers and students. It is available for UNIX and LINUX also
You might want to try GRETL. It is compatible with R. Not as comprehensive as SPSS, but a great program and its free.
 
Old 09-23-2011, 07:40 AM   #4618
resolv_25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irneb View Post
You've basically iterated the "usual" excuses. I'd have "thought" at least the distro's would provide some basic tutorials to use their own GUI's. But even there it's hard to find (if at all available). IMO it's one of the major reasons why Linux is "still failing" ... let's face it, *nix is still just a niche OS. And until most users can start to feel confident about using it it will stay such. They won't feel confident about CLI ... ever! I love CLI's "power" and "performance", I've grown up from the DOS days and still revert to a CMD window on Windows when there's simply not a nice / easy / fast / efficient interface for what I want to achieve. But when I have to show a less-than-programmer how to setup something like (say) network access to a server, I wouldn't go and explain Windows's CLI version of NET USE to them now would I? They'd get this cloudy substance in their eyes as soon as I pressed the WinKey+R and typed CMD<Enter> . While their eyes might not achieve a "sparkling" effect when I open the Network Neighbourhood and browse to the domain / server / share and right-click, it would at least not cloud over as much .


True! I seem to find hundreds of possible projects if I search on something like sourceforge. Each does something really well, but falls short on other items. You start finding that project A does point X like nobody's business, but for doing point Y you're better off with project B. In the back of your mind you start thinking: "If only the developers of these 2/3/4/.../1mil projects would amalgamate their efforts the result might be one awesome program which could kick a$$ on all fronts."

At least there are some which seem to get it right. E.g. Ubuntu might not be the best distro out there, but it (and its ilk) make users a bit less itchy when they actually have to use it. I think such distros are a step in the right direction. But when the tutorials revert to 50's model CLI interfaces, that step is less than tentative to say the least.
Very good post indeed. I share the same feeling here.
Ubuntu gain its popularity because of destroying the myth that Linux is for geeks only.
Story about usability can be separated on 2 different angles:
1. Sys admin/programmer or another professionals need to learn sooner or later their job more in a depth, and CL interface shall not be such an obstacle. Still, if something is simple/faster to do it on GUi, why not. After all, computers are here to automate and speed up any process of working.
2. Regular users. For them shall be more GUI, and this is where Ubuntu (and others) are making progress, because is more and more easy to use.
So, the comprehensive guide with GUI solution for a regular and simple tasks is a must have whenever OS attempts to be popular.

Again, I've seen so many times this story that for a particular task there are several projects, all together would made far stronger product if working together. Here is a problem that many people start with project when they need exact result, and because are not paid, doing it just when feel like, and how feel like.
It is the same even among the different distros, many things are overlapping.
It's not so easy to put everything together.

Finally, hardware producers are still making a problems while not providing the proper specification, or as someone noted, they will not invest money on something that is not their target on market.

I think the best chance to gain real popularity are big projects, such as switch of German insurance company LVM on Ubuntu.
When someone is caring about own money, and such a projects are money saving, then the working people will accept it without questions.

So, on the topic question, what Windows program do we wish on Linux, just to be more and more user friendly. (some of them already are)
 
Old 10-01-2011, 01:21 PM   #4619
colinetsegers
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Hello. Excellent question! There's one program I'd really like to have for Linux,
and that is Finale, music notation software, would really be great, even in a
simplified version, and I'm sure many people would gladly pay for it. In my case
I'd like it for Debian, and/or Puppy, and/or PCLinuxOS. The reason? It's just nice and excellent software which I use with MacOS 9 since many years.
This is the link to the original site: <http://www.finalemusic.com>.
Best Wishes, Paul

>What programs would you like to see ported to Linux?
>This thread is for letting vendors know that there is interest in porting one of their >programs to Linux. Let us know what programs you would like to see ported and why. >Details such as how much you would be willing to pay may be helpful as well.
>If there is enough interest for certain programs I will even contact the vendor myself.

>--jeremy

Last edited by colinetsegers; 10-01-2011 at 01:26 PM.
 
Old 10-01-2011, 03:53 PM   #4620
teckk
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http://musescore.org/
Found this if it will work for you.
 
  


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