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Old 12-29-2003, 10:47 AM   #16
scottpioso
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Yes, I realize this. I should have mentioned that I have taken all of the CCNA classes and understand how the internet works, however, I disagree with part of what you said about one router knowing the entire route. With OSPF, IGRP, and EIGRP, I believe the high end cisco routers do have the ability to plot an entire picture of several networks and final route destinations. When the routers converge, this means they all have the same routing information.

However, a router must maintain tables of several next hops and in fact, they do. They have to see more than just the next hop. They have to look far ahead of the next hop.

In addition, if what you say is true about not being able to pinpoint an exact location, how is it that visualroute has the ability to determine the city and perhaps subnet of a host and the netbios name.
 
Old 12-29-2003, 10:52 AM   #17
XavierP
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But the name of a city isn't an exact route. For example, London has around 4million people living in it, VisualRoute can't tell you which people have which ip addresses. As far as the pc name goes, thats just a dns thing. All pcs broadcast their name (if their dns servers are set up to do this - I have servers which do not resolve to a name). So all VisualRoute is doing is picking up information which is available to all - in Windows terms it's just Tracert with a bit of DNS and Ripe tracing.
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:12 AM   #18
scottpioso
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Okay, well, here's another hypothetical, let's say the United States Department of Defense wants to track where a suspected terrorist's email is coming from. Are you telling me that there's no way to pinpoint, using the IP addresses, the location of a host?
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:16 AM   #19
ugge
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottpioso
Yes, I realize this. I should have mentioned that I have taken all of the CCNA classes and understand how the internet works, however, I disagree with part of what you said about one router knowing the entire route. With OSPF, IGRP, and EIGRP, I believe the high end cisco routers do have the ability to plot an entire picture of several networks and final route destinations. When the routers converge, this means they all have the same routing information.

However, a router must maintain tables of several next hops and in fact, they do. They have to see more than just the next hop. They have to look far ahead of the next hop.

In addition, if what you say is true about not being able to pinpoint an exact location, how is it that visualroute has the ability to determine the city and perhaps subnet of a host and the netbios name.
It's right that some of the router protocols (Exterior Gateway Protocols like BGP, EGP) have a much bigger picture of the Internet, but they know the network mostly by AS (Autonomous Systems). The programs used to get the information you look for combine information from different sources like DNS, outside databases and OS fingerprinting (offensive or non-offensive).

The exact routing information kept by the core routers are held to them self. You don't want to advertise the infrastructure of the network to all.

(I have graduated the Cisco Academy Program as CCNA)
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:34 AM   #20
XavierP
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Quote:
Okay, well, here's another hypothetical, let's say the United States Department of Defense wants to track where a suspected terrorist's email is coming from. Are you telling me that there's no way to pinpoint, using the IP addresses, the location of a host?
Why do you think the FBI needs a warrant to seize details from ISPs? There is no magic program which gives the details. The FBI (for example) works out the ip address, time of attack and ISP. They go to the ISP and ask for details on who was using the IP address at that time. The ISP goes over their records and hands over the details.
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:43 AM   #21
scottpioso
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Okay, I'm done guys!! You win!!
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:45 AM   #22
ugge
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottpioso
Okay, well, here's another hypothetical, let's say the United States Department of Defense wants to track where a suspected terrorist's email is coming from. Are you telling me that there's no way to pinpoint, using the IP addresses, the location of a host?
Yes of course they can track down offenders, don't go go think that you have the same power at your hands though. Things doesn't work the same in the real world as it does in Hollywood.
 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:52 AM   #23
XavierP
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Good debate, though, Scott.

I look forward to the next one.
 
  


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