LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Software
User Name
Password
Linux - Software This forum is for Software issues.
Having a problem installing a new program? Want to know which application is best for the job? Post your question in this forum.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 09-02-2002, 10:16 AM   #1
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Rep: Reputation: 0
stuck with Lilo


Suse 7.2 / Kernel 2.4.4-4GB / KDe 2.1.2

To eventually overcome a number of hard- and software related difficulties I finally managed to compile the new kernel 2.4.19 (why is this all so complicated?)

I am working with a dual boot system (with W98) trough a lilo floppy. At this moment I cannot afford to loose my W98 with all my data and neither the working Linux with internet access. Before renaming it I want to test the new kernel through a new floppy.

When I try to make "zdisk" it aborts with the error saying that my (new) kernel is too large. When I make "bzdisk" it warns me about the size but still creates a floppy which when used produces a nice repetitive pattern on the screen; both versions are not very helpful.

Currently I have one (only one) floppy which gives me the option to choose whether to boot linux or W98. I am trying to make another, to be able to try to solve the problem above by modifying the lilo.conf file on it.

However, when I create a boot diskette from Suse Yast2 (in 2 different ways, with the old kernel) they both create a floppy which boots from itself (very slowly) and afterwards (in 2 different ways) asks for the Linux CD1.
When I format a new floppy accordingly and copy the files from the working dual boot floppy on it, this floppy is just being ignored as a boot floppy. (By the way: why am I not allowed to format a new, empty floppy other than as "root" and why does "root" not check the contents of a floppy before formatting?)

What puzzles me further: the four files on my working dual boot floppy (being boot.b, lilo.conf, map, vmlinuz) are all different from (and smaller than) their counterparts as well from the old and the new kernel in /boot/ and /etc/.

So my questions:
1) how can I overcome the size problem of the new kernel to build a new dual boot lilo floppy?

2) if starting from a copy of the now working dual boot floppy is a good idea: how do I copy a floppy and what have I to change to make it work with the new kernel?

P:S. When the first system in the world with a floppy came to market in 1974 there existed already a simple command for copying; it asked nicely for the source diskette, refused when it was unformatted or in an unknown format or if there was not enough intermediate space on the system disk(s), warned when it was empty, copied the contents to intermediate space, asked nicely to put in the target floppy, refused it if was of a physical type which was too small to contain the data to be copied or when it found any files to which the initiator of the copy command had no existence authority, warned when it was not empty or different in physical size from the source floppy, copied the contents of the intermediate space onto it, asked nicely to remove and label it, asked nicely whether to create a further copy and in the end freed the intermediate space. Now we are in 2002 and as I understand, unix is not a very new operating system that was shoddily invented to make a lot of bucks with happy-go-lucky customers. - So: is there really no simple and easy way to create a 1:1 copy of a media that soon celebrates its 30th birthday?

Thanks
 
Old 09-02-2002, 11:06 AM   #2
sharper
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: MN USA
Distribution: slakware 9.0
Posts: 121

Rep: Reputation: 15
This would work with Slackware, not sure about Suse

First, Did you rerun lilo after compiling the kernel? This has to be done so lilo will recognize the new kernel. After that run liloconfig and if you choose the "simple" installation the third option is to install lilo to root/floppy/mbr.

If you choose floppy the kernel is on the hard drive wherever Suse puts it, but the bootloader is on the floppy.
 
Old 09-02-2002, 01:19 PM   #3
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Well there bruno, all good questions.

Let me try this in order.

Your image is too big to fit on a floppy because you have compile too much support into the actual kernel, and not as "module". If you want to have a smaller kernel, you will need to have more "module" support. This means during your kernel compile you would need to choose M instead of *.

If you smash your kernel to a decent size with M support, and eventually get the floppy thing figured out, you can simply copy the file over to your /boot directory, rename it something to show it's the new kernel (maybe vmlinuz-susenew) and also copy over the new System.map file.

What you can do instead of dealing with the floppy issue would be to actually just set it up in lilo to boot another image, your new image, and still retain the old one in the case that it doesn't work. There are loads of threads on this, but here is the quick and dirty, if this doesn't make sense, a search will reveal MANY ideas. Search for LILO, new kernel, and/or dual boot.

Here goes:
after you finish making your kernel, you should have run something close to these steps:
make xconfig (or menuconfig, or config)
make dep
make clean
make modules
make modules_install
make bzImage

What this will have done is make you a kernel in the current directories arch/i386/boot directory. The kernel will be called bzImage. You then would type this command:
cd arch/i386/boot
mv bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-susenew (replacing vmlinuz-susenew with your choice of wording)
then you will also want to copy System.map in the lower directory, the linux-2.4.19 directory. So:
cd ..
cd ..
mv System.map /boot/System.map-2.4.19

Ok, now you will probably see that in /boot the System.map file itself is simply a symlink to the actual file. So now you are going to replace the symlink:
ln -sf /boot/System.map-2.4.19 /boot/System.map

And now you will need to edit LILO to show your new kernel during bootup along side your existing kernel:

Using your favorite text editor, do the following (this example will use PICO):
pico /etc/lilo.conf

And place this line at the very bottom:

image = /boot/vmlinuz-susenew
label = NewSuseKernel
root = /dev/hdX
read-only


Follow the syntax of your existing kernel. So for example, your 'root =' entry says 'root = /dev/hdb1' then that is what your kernel should say as well. The image portion is the portion needing to be changed, as shown above, and the label portion as well. The label will be what you pick during boot up. If you have more options listed, add those as well, such as a "append" line, go ahead and add the append line to the kernel as well.

Once it's all said and done, exit your text editor. With pico it's:
CTRL X
Y

And then you want to rerun lilo to place the options in your bootup screen:
/sbin/lilo -v

And watch to make sure there are no errors. Now reboot

Cool
 
Old 09-03-2002, 01:03 PM   #4
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Thanks a lot, Master(C?)

I have followed some of your advices and got one step further ... into a new set of problems.

I did, for the time being, not reconfigure the kernel with more modules. I am not sure at what time, from where and at what cost of time these "modular modules" are loaded, but I can surely find that information without bothering you. But when I consider, that I basically installed the standard system proposed by Suse, and then when I first encountered the size problem with my new kernel shed 150K by thoroughly running xconfig and still have an increase of roughly 500K between 2.4.4 and 2.4.19. What happens in two or three years when we are at 3.5.18, fired up by the envolvement in linux of companies like IBM? Shedding modules (from a kernel of maybe 3-4M) to escape the limit of 1.4M floppies can't be the solution! OK ...

After adding lba32 I was able to compile my enhanced lilo.config. Now when backing out of KDE, linux kindly gives me the option of a restart with my linux-new. However, this does not work without my (still only) working floppy - without it W98 starts, as I would expect.
With the floppy, however, I get the old choices (from the old lilo.config on the floppy, I guess) in a completely differently looking menu layout. When I chose my (standard) linux it starts up; everything seems to take a bit longer than before (which would be normal with a larger kernel) and I can sign into KDE. When I call the KDE-Center it reports still kernel 2.4.4-4GB and after exiting that program, not much goes anymore. I can start my browser, but have no connections; I can start KDE-Center, but it just disappears and most other programs produce just an error message saying "could not start xxx with some % and other funny characters. So it seems, that I am somewhere in between the kernels and the system parts do not communicate properly any more with each other.

So what do I do next? Maybe having a new lilo floppy could cure that state ... but the size doesn't allow it. I could probably put the lilo startup machinery on a CD if I would manage to use my burner as such. But with the old kernel I am hesitant to tackle all the major or minor problems I have with most of the programs I run (most programs also are relatively old versions).

Looking forward to answers
Thank you
Bruno
 
Old 09-03-2002, 01:37 PM   #5
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Right then...

I must be honest, I have never used a boot floppy in my short lived life as a Linux junkie. That said, I have never had the NEED for one either. If I run into boot problems (maybe forgot to run /sbin/lilo) then I have always been able to rescue with my boot CD's.

I don't know if this would be what you would want to do, but it's an option nonetheless.

You can simply forget about the boot floppy, install LILO into your MBR, and then dual boot from the MBR. There are loads of threads/people on here that talk about Lilo. The people know alot about it, and some can write a lilo.conf from scratch blindly. It's been tested, and works well on many systems, I cannot see a reason yours would be different.

Running /sbin/lilo as root I would think would put lilo into your MBR, and allow you to use it next time you boot without the worry of a floppy. But this would require 2 things:
Having lilo installed;
and having a lilo.conf file.

Using liloconfig I would think you could setup a lilo.conf file, but I do not know if SuSE has liloconfig as an option. I would venture to guess that somewhere in the depths of Yast2 (or something like that) would be a way to easily configure such a setup. Look for boot loader, LILO or something along those lines. I will plug on over to SuSE to see if I can find it as well. From there you will hopefully be able to suss this out.

And as for the future of kernels, I would look towards CDRW as a very viable replacement to the 'long since should have been destroyed' floppy drives.

I will hopefully return soon with a more SuSE oriented answer for you sir.

Cool
 
Old 09-03-2002, 01:48 PM   #6
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Hi, just thought I would say this to start, suse's fonts suck.

Now that I have that off my chest

Yes, in the SuSE YaST2 Control Center, if you click system, you should have "bootloader configuration". If you don't you will need to install it. From there, it should be straight forward on setting it up via the gui tools SuSE provides.

If you still run into problems, or it just doesn't make sense, I will be happy to walk you through it.

Cool
 
Old 09-03-2002, 01:51 PM   #7
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Oh one last thing, I have Suse 8 Pro, I don't know if things would have changed alot by now, because the "susish" directions would apply to SuSE 8.

I hope that you would have similar options though, I don't think it would be in SuSE's best interest to change things around alot with different releases.

But if you do still run into problems, I have a copy of 7.2 laying around that I could toss in if things are that different.

Cool
 
Old 09-03-2002, 06:50 PM   #8
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Hi Master(C?),

First let me assure you that I really don't try to annoy you!!!

I went through the boot configuration option of Yast2 - System and put Lilo into the MBR, which was confirmed (listing 'lilo -u /dev/hda' to restore the old state) before crying hurray. Then I signed off. The restart has now no more options at all. When I'm booting without floppy it goes straight to W98 (contrary to the explanation of what writing lilo to the MBR should do); with floppy I am back to the old (useful) choices which do not include an option for my new kernel.

As this try was obviously not very successful I took the remove option which was countered by the message "Boot sector of /dev/hda does not contain a LILO signature!!??? This explains most of the behaviour but is in a subtle contrast to the completion message from Yast. I repeated once more the Yast step and the remove option with exactly the same result. (For a windows user it is a very good feeling to see, that with linux what goes wrong is at least consistent !)

Everything I did was as root.

How larg is a MBR? If it is not much larger than a floppy, I can't see how it possibly can function.

With linux there are options to format a floppy beyond 1,4M. I tried once a fd0u1680 (or was it 1620) for that purpose but it seemed to ignore that larger size on my 'make bzdisk' - or was this still not large enough. Somewhere I saw the hint not to put a file system on a boot floppy - or a lilo boot floppy?

If you have no solution to my floppy woes, don't bother too much (except for a hint to an easy way to copy my precious only working lilo boot floppy). I will try to overcome this obstacle with a CD-RW tomorrow and I am quite sure that I need a lot of help there again.

Thanks again,
Bruno (00:51, local time here)
 
Old 09-04-2002, 08:47 AM   #9
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Wow, pretty close to the other side of the world there bruno

Well, the MBR would depend on the disc size, at least that's what it would appear to several web sites including:
http://kb.indiana.edu/data/aijw.html

Beyond that, I would say, what is your drive arrangement? Which drive is Primary Master and which is primary slave, and which one do you have your OS's installed on?

Just in case I haven't said how to find out in Linux, if you run:
fdisk -l (that's FDISK -L lowercase)
It will show you your drive setup.

If you aren't too pressed for time on getting this thing worked out, then I would like to try to solve your problem. You in no way are bothering me, I don't get paid to come here, so this is of course my hobby.

Just to let you know what I am thinking, and why I am wondering your drive setup.

Winbloze REALLY likes to be first. It's greedy like that. Linux doesn't care, it's very flexible. If you have winbloze setup to be your Primary Slave drive, that might be a problem. There are work arounds in LILO for that, and that might be the way for us to go.

If that is not the case, then another possiblity is which drive you have set as bootable. You may be installing LILO to the first sector of /dev/hda but you are actually booting with /dev/hdb. If this is the case, I will search around and find a solution for that. It shouldn't be very hard either.

There may be other reasons, but for now, let's figure out what it probably is, instead of all the possibilities of what it might be.

Cool
 
Old 09-04-2002, 12:12 PM   #10
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Hello again, Master(C?),

As it looks you are in Washington state and not DC, so in the US only Alaska and Hawaii would be a bit further away.

..

I have only one harddisk and the lilo arrangement I have now (with the old kernel) is perfect for me. To illustrate the technicalities a bit further it is best when you go to the Hardware forum and look for "32GB". There you also can understand the source of my current current of problems.

So long ...
Bruno
 
Old 09-06-2002, 07:10 AM   #11
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Ok, found the thread, and still have no idea what is keeping you from putting lilo into the MBR.

Here is another article for you on LILO:
http://linuxnewbies.editthispage.com/tips/20000117
It seems to choose the extreme safe side. I say install to the MBR, no worries.

This one goes pretty in depth, but is slitely dated (2000):
http://linux-sxs.org/liloexpl1.html

Good reading for you sir. Anyway, onto fixing your problem, or at least getting around it somehow.

Please post the following:

the results of (in command line for everything):
cat /etc/lilo.conf

AND the results of:
fdisk -l (FDISK -L lowercase)

This will show me 2 things; what disk you have set to boot, and what lilo thinks is your boot disk (amongst other lilo options we may have to "fix" or edit).

Cool

<edit>
Like I said before, I haven't used a boot disk. So if you don't have a lilo.conf on the boot disk, just post the one from the /etc/ directory after you boot up.
</edit>

Last edited by MasterC; 09-06-2002 at 07:12 AM.
 
Old 09-07-2002, 08:14 AM   #12
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Hi MasterC,

I am slowly despairing. Yesterday, when I tried to reply you - being on the net as I am now - I could not submit my reply any more; linuxquestions.org not found was the message and since then there is no more way to get a connection in the internet. Therefore I am writing this on the PC of my son. I checked and changed around all the definitions, updated the Software from the Suse CDs (suddenly kde base-sysguard was missing??), tried out all the different start floppies I have and am finally back to something like the original behaviour of Linux, except for the internet connections. I changed cables and communication cards - no way.

Then disaster struck again: I don't get into my Windows any more. No matter whether I take the option from the linux restart or boot floppy or that I start without floppy - it always boots linux up to LI or LIL instead of W98. I tried then "/sbin/lilo -u" which gives my just the screen as if I had typed "lilo --help".

While I was writing the reply, the only things I did was issuing the cat and fdisk commands as you directed me to and opened the /etc/lilo.conf file. I tried a few ways (in vail) to copy and post the output to this reply field. What could I have destroyed?

Bruno
 
Old 09-07-2002, 09:01 AM   #13
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
The LI and LIL display at least means that you have LILO installed into the MBR. To get back into w98 do you have a startup disk? You can use one from any computer with w98 working on it.

Ok, if you drop in your SuSE disc, you should have a "rescue" option. You would start it up as if you were going to install it, and at the first screen it might say "PRess F1 for help". You would press F1 and find the info on rescue. Once you get in there, you can fix and reinstall LILO as needed.

I have gotten that screen before, but that was due to not running /sbin/lilo after making changes to the /etc/lilo.conf file. This may be your problem, and your rescue program might give you the option to do just that. If not, go ahead and get into your drive, then run it will full path: /sbin/lilo

Also, if files are mysteriously disappearing this would actually seem like hardware failure rather than a problem of any OS. You might want to run fsck -p to check and fix any errors. If you want to do this from winbloze (assuming you get back in there) you can run ScanDisk and have it also check for bad sectors.

I do believe that something like scandisk.exe might be on your SuSE install CDROM. Check under "dostools" or "dosutils" or similar directory.

Good luck
 
Old 09-07-2002, 09:49 AM   #14
bruno
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Stettfurt, Switzerland
Distribution: SUSE 7.2
Posts: 12

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Hello MasterC

I managed now to clear the MBR by issuing the command correctly (that happens if you start to panic) and am back to W98.

With my standard old boot diskette I think I will also come back to linux safely the old way. All the rest with the lost internet connection I will try later, now I'm going to play table tennis with my daughter in order to relax. Gee, I need it.

Thanks
Bruno

Still from my son's PC, under Windows XP - what a shame!
 
Old 09-07-2002, 09:51 AM   #15
MasterC
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
he he he, well at least you got it fixed somewhat. That's a relief. Cool, have fun, and if you want to attempt it again, I will be glad to help you.

Cool
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Switching from grub to lilo, messed up Lilo.conf, rescuing via Knoppix. SonicGT Debian 2 08-21-2005 02:15 PM
Gentoo - stuck at lilo boot prompt brenan99 Linux - Distributions 1 11-29-2004 05:28 PM
Lilo lost, Install disk failing to restore Lilo on dual boot? Dobie Linux - Newbie 2 05-05-2004 06:00 PM
LILO stuck in uninterruptable sleep m0rl0ck Linux - Software 1 08-31-2003 03:10 AM
Made a bootdisk with RedHat 7.1 to boot: Gave me SYSLINUX, not LILO:Want to use LILO Colonel Panic Linux - Software 0 08-17-2001 07:21 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:55 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration