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Old 11-06-2001, 01:39 PM   #1
busybee
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Redhat 7.1 & NTFS


busybee

I have up and running of Redhat 7.1 dual boot with WinXP. The dumb machine came with NTFS partition and a FAT32 partition. I was even more dumber to install the RedHat without converting the NTFS to FAT32.

so now im left hardly 500MB of FAT32 space which linux can read/write.

now here is the Q.

CAN I MAKE LINUX READ/WRITE IN THE NTFS PARTITION?

any suggestions/insults r welcome ..


deeps
 
Old 11-06-2001, 06:26 PM   #2
finegan
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NTFS read-write

It's possible, and is supported in kernels since 2.2.x.

I haven't used Red Hat in a while, but from what I've read up in the past five minutes with a little googling you would need to re-compile your kernel with NTFS rw support enabled.

I remember seeing the kernel option in menuconfig a few days ago when I was recompiling a 2.4.5 on a slackware box and the all caps EXPERIMENTAL would seem to be a good reason not to even try, or to just re-install windows (2k we're talkin about right? I forgot from your post). According to some posts I read on another forum there are all sorts of nasty things that can occur: memory leaks, kernel panics, random hangs due to mountd getting stressed, bleeding gums, spontaneous acne, un-expected body hair, and worst (or best) of all, outright corruption of the NTFS partition.

The quickest, easiest way I could suggest to solve the problem: buy a cheap hard drive, format it fat and never put anything on it that you don't mind getting corrupted (which I've yet to actually have happen... lucky maybe?).

NTFS rw mount support is supposed to get a lot better in 2.6.X, especially since Bill's flagship product uses it now, but we're talking a while from now.

Sorry I couldn't be of any real help.

Good luck,

-Finegan
 
Old 11-06-2001, 06:59 PM   #3
busybee
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busybee

Im running the dual OS on my Sony Vaio FX370 laptop. So I guess I wud not be able to add additional hard drive. I have read that adding a module or something similar wud make the linux kernel atleast read NTFS. I was hoping that I wud atleast be able to read from the NTFS partition

alas .....
 
Old 11-06-2001, 07:49 PM   #4
marktaff
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As a workaround to reformatting and reinstalling, you could use fips or partition magic to create another partition (~50-250MB) formatted as FAT32 and use it as a swap drive.

Any files on this partition would be available in both OS's.

Another note: You do not need to keep all you personal files and applications on the windows system drive. You can keep all your personal files on another partition, along with your windows apps (when they install, just change the install location).

That is really 2 solutions: first is:

NTFS system partition (with OS, personal files and apps)
ext2 or ext3 partition (for linux)
FAT32 partition (to swap files, much like with a floppy)
maybe /boot linux partition

The second is:

NTFS system partition (OS only)
ext2 or ext3 partition (Linux OS only)
FAT32 partition for all your personal files from both OS's
again, maybe a /boot linux partition

Both solutions also presume a linux swap partition (for memory swap, not files).

Also note that windows uses pagefile.sys file on C: as the memory swap partition. So, if you are going to trim the NTFS partition, make sure you allow at least 2 x installed ram in MB of free space on the C: drive to allow the swapfile to grow and shrink.

Windows does not behave well when it runs out of swap space.

Mark
 
Old 11-06-2001, 07:59 PM   #5
busybee
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NTFS on Redhat 7.1

busybee

Mark .. I dont seem to get what you had suggested. I have about 250MB of swap space for a 256MB ram. thought that would be enough for the linux.

My C: drive is FAT32 and im able to mount it in linux. The D: drive is NTFS and im unable to mount it in linux. Will I able to access that NTFS partition in linux ?

The linux(OS+swap+applications) are all installed on the FAT32 which I made from the existing C drive.
 
Old 11-06-2001, 07:59 PM   #6
finegan
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Mounting read

Mounting an NTFS partition read-only isn't that big a deal. Heck, Samba has been supporting that for networks for nearly a whole major version. It's when you take that jump to mounting the partition read-write that things get dangerous. There's a bunch of blah, blah, blah about memory leaks and not to have it mounted for a long time and yadya, but if you don't panic the kernel every once in a while, you're slackin off.

Again, from googling, I think you still have to re-compile the kernel to support the ntfs file system. The module, if you have it, is called ntfs.o (surprised?).

Try /sbin/modprobe ntfs

if that works: mount /dev/hda2 -r -t ntfs /mnt/someplace
(assuming your ntfs drive is /dev/hda2 that is)

If it isn't there, Redhat thought it was best not to put it in the precompiled binaries. You could make a new kernel configuration file, change ONLY the bit about compiling in NTFS support as a modules, and then just make all the modules... but that's cheating.

Most people look forward to a kernel compile like going to the dentist. Hey, its fun, just be careful. Anyway, you've got a viao, which means it'll probably only take ten minutes. I did this on a 486 last night, and most of the day before...

Again the quickest way may be just to re-install win2k, but either way, good luck.
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:09 PM   #7
busybee
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busybee


Finegan .. I cudnt locate the ntfs.o as you said, redhat was very apprehensive about shipping it with the installation { mebbe just didnt want freaks like me pullin down the entire OS }

How do i make a new kernel configuration file ?

if it comes to reinstalling .. i will need to reinstall winXP
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:20 PM   #8
marktaff
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Re: NTFS on Redhat 7.1

Quote:
Originally posted by busybee
busybee

Mark .. I dont seem to get what you had suggested. I have about 250MB of swap space for a 256MB ram. thought that would be enough for the linux.

My C: drive is FAT32 and im able to mount it in linux. The D: drive is NTFS and im unable to mount it in linux. Will I able to access that NTFS partition in linux ?

The linux(OS+swap+applications) are all installed on the FAT32 which I made from the existing C drive.
First, ideally, for linux swap partition you should have 2 x installed ram, but it should work OK with your setup. Linux makes full use of your ram and swap space, so not having enough is very limiting.

Second, windows also uses swap, only it doesn't create a separate partition for it like linux does. It creates the pagefile.sys file in the C: drive and uses that file for memory swap.

The problem could manifest like this: Assume windows partition is 1000MB, but after you put all your stuff on it, you only have 50MB of unused space left. Then pagefile.sys can only grow to be 50MB in size, and as soon as it tries to get bigger than that, windows will crash, and very badly at that.

You can access NTFS in linux, as others have said, but you are taking some risks with your data. To recap my suggestion earlier:

Take everything off the NTFS partition that deosn't need to be there (all your apps and personal files) create a new E: partition as FAT32, transfer your personal files to that drive, and reinstall your windows apps, telling the installer to put them on your E: drive.

Once there is nothing on your NTFS partition except the windows OS, there is really no need to mount it in linux at all.

Alternatively, steal some room for another small Fat32 partition from somewhere. How big you make it is a preference. Think of this partition as a floppy or zip or even CD-RW drive; i.e. you use it as a temporary home for files you want to move between the OS's. In windows you could label it winlinuxswap, and mount it as the same in linux ( /mnt/winlinuxswap).

Using fips or partition magic to resize/create new partitions shouldn't require you to reinstall any OS, but you will need to uninstall and reinstall your windows apps if you move them off the windows system drive.

Hope that explains it better.

Mark
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:23 PM   #9
marktaff
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If it does come down to you starting from scratch, I would make ALL my windows partitions FAT32. I just did that on one of my other machines, and I can mount all of them in linux, no problem.

Mark
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:34 PM   #10
busybee
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Lightbulb busybee

Mark .. thanxx ... i got it. I tried using fips on the NTFS drive .. but looks like NTFS doesnt seem to like fips. how do i partition the NTFS drive ? i looked around in google and i dont seem to get any answer to split a NTFS partition ..
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:35 PM   #11
DMR
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If you're interested in pursuing the NTFS compatibility, it looks like some of the folks over at SourceForge have a few goodies you might want to check out.
 
Old 11-06-2001, 08:47 PM   #12
finegan
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compiling for NTFS

I really recommend just re-compiling the kernel AND the modules. The cheat way just makes all of the modules and then you snag the one you want and ignore the rest, which makes life simpler for older machines. You've got 256 Megs of RAM, you've got no worries.
Go to /usr/src/linux and read the README. You can probably skip down to 'CONFIGURING the Kernel', but it's best to read the whole thing; you know, RTFM and all.

It has different ways to do different steps. The first step, make config, has 3 alternatives. I prefer make menuconfig. The menus are easy to navigate without being as cotton candy as the X version. Heck, try em all if you want. Remember, this is the fun part. The settings that will be in there will be what you have in the default kernel you're running on.

Also, when you get to make Zimage or bZimage, you'll almost definately have to make bZ unless you chop out a lot of options (keep it simple for the first run).

Cheers,

Finegan
 
Old 11-06-2001, 09:11 PM   #13
marktaff
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If fips won't do it, you could check for a newer version of fips, or use partition magic.

Another option is of course rebuilding your kernel with NTFS support, as others have suggested. If it dosn't work, you can just switch back to the original kernel.

The final solution is, of course, to (gulp!) start from scratch.

Also, I believe Samba will mount an NTFS drive, allowing you access in linux. I have not used Samba and do not know if this will work, but it is an option you may want to investigate.

Mark
 
Old 11-07-2001, 12:32 AM   #14
Ript
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Partition magic!

Partition magic will convert NTFS to fat32, but of course its comercial software.
 
Old 11-07-2001, 01:11 AM   #15
busybee
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Partition Magic

ya .. ideally Partition magic wud be ideal .. but im looking into the suggestions. hoping that something will work out.

busybee
 
  


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