pinyin and ibus

Pedroski · 10-19-2010, 06:39 PM

I run Fedora. I use the Ibus input method. After recent updates, the character 着,zhe = English -ing ending comes out wrong.(See, even here it is wrong, if you have Chinese enabled) Where do I report this? How can I fix this? It was ok before

Bruce Hill · 10-20-2010, 02:04 AM

The 着 you have input looks perfectly correct to me. It is of course,
简体字 (Simplified Chinese). Are you perhaps looking for the 繁体字
(Traditional Chinese) character instead?

This Hanzi has been enlarged to accommodate presbyopia.

syg00 · 10-20-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

This Hanzi has been enlarged to accommodate presbyopia.

And appreciated by other lurkers ...

Pedroski · 10-20-2010, 10:32 PM

My students say it is wrong. It was not like that before, is this a revision. I would not write it so by hand. I dont know how it is displaying in your computer. I think there is a mistake in the program.

I attach a little jpg, a hand drawing of zhe. Please tell me if you think the one on the right is zhe, because that's what I'm getting!

Bruce Hill · 10-20-2010, 11:21 PM

Your students are not very bright if they can't tell you the difference
between Traditional and Simplified Chinese.

I asked you before:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hill

It is of course, 简体字 (Simplified Chinese). Are you perhaps looking for the 繁体字
(Traditional Chinese) character instead?

The zhe in your post #1 and the zhe in my post #2 are both Simplified.

The handwritten zhe's in your drawing in post #4 are Simplified on the left,
and Traditional on the right. They are BOTH zhe.

That just goes to show you how incredibly difficult it is to learn Chinese. We
have humble Chinese friends (few and far between) who tell us they've been
studying Chinese for over 20 years and are still studying.

This link is one of many that will help.

And a little inside information ...

You are in a better position with Fedora than some other distros for CJK.
Because the devels of SCIM work for RedHat; submitted patches to Fedora but
did not include them upstream. So the rest of us got source for scim-1.4.9
and scim-bridge-0.4.15 and scim-bridge-0.4.16 that did not include these
patches. Now they've abandoned development of SCIM and gone to iBus.

Pedroski · 10-20-2010, 11:36 PM

Thanks for that. I think you'll find the traditional variant is not the one on the right in my jpg. Leaving that aside: do you know where the database is for ibus? I would like to change the character I am now getting for zhe for the one I used to get.

You could be right about the students though: 他们不是很聪明

Bruce Hill · 10-21-2010, 12:06 AM

You are correct ... see, there's that presbyopia.

After enlarging your hand drawn characters it looks as if the one
on the right is NOT a Chinese character at all. It is close to some,
but not in any of my dictionaries. Sorry for my mistake. Maybe you
can post a screenshot of iBus actually giving you that character.

You should say 他们都不是很聪明 -- the dou indicates all and is used in
Putonghua.

Let me Google iBus for you -- second hit on Google HK.

File a bug report ... or join #ibus@FreeNode.irc.net and ask J. Peterson.
He is a native English speaker and has been very helpful to me.

Just curious ... why don't you use SCIM? IMO it's much nicer than iBus,
and there you are in the distro where they patched the source.

Pedroski · 10-21-2010, 12:36 AM

Well thanks again. If you know nciku.com, they will show the 'right hand character' as zhe, so maybe this is a Taiwan thing. They like to be different.

Thanks for the correction, my Chinese is terrible. Maybe, in 20 years .......

I use ibus because it came with Fed, and I am no expert in Linux. I always liked the motto 'If it ain't broke, ....'

Bruce Hill · 10-21-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedroski

Well thanks again. If you know nciku.com, they will show the 'right hand character' as zhe, so maybe this is a Taiwan thing. They like to be different.

Thanks for the correction, my Chinese is terrible. Maybe, in 20 years .......

I use ibus because it came with Fed, and I am no expert in Linux. I always liked the motto 'If it ain't broke, ....'

If we got the same nciku.com here as you get, it's from Beijing, not Taiwan:

Code:

mingdao@jeremiah ~ $ host www.nciku.com
www.nciku.com is an alias for www.nciku.com.usgcac.cdnetworks.net.
www.nciku.com.usgcac.cdnetworks.net is an alias for origin.nciku.com.
origin.nciku.com has address 218.240.10.230
mingdao@jeremiah ~ $ whois 218.240.10.230
% [whois.apnic.net node-1]
% Whois data copyright terms    http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html

inetnum:        218.240.0.0 - 218.240.63.255
netname:        NETEON
descr:          Beijing Neteon Tech Co, Ltd.
descr:          Room203-204,No.1,#737,CaoXi Road North,Shanghai,China
country:        CN
admin-c:        MX436-AP
tech-c:         MX436-AP
status:         ALLOCATED PORTABLE
mnt-by:         MAINT-CNNIC-AP
mnt-lower:      MAINT-CNNIC-AP
mnt-routes:     MAINT-CNNIC-AP
changed:        ipas@cnnic.cn 20100330
source:         APNIC

person:         Miao Xin
address:        lixiang building, No.111 zhichun road,haidian district,beijing
country:        CN
phone:          +86-010-5199450
fax-no:         +86-010-5199450
e-mail:         beex@163.com
nic-hdl:        MX436-AP
mnt-by:         MAINT-CNNIC-AP
changed:        ipas@cnnic.net.cn 20100330
source:         APNIC

There is also nciku.com.tw in Taiwan (cn=China country code; tw=Taiwan).

Taiwan uses Traditional characters, as does Hong Kong.

I think you're still looking at that character wrong; and a good screenshot
from iBus inputting it into, say, OOo, would show us. Here's what nciku
does with the character in your drawing.

It's just not a character ... close to the Traditional character for zhe,
but you have no caozitou 草字头 and one too many heng in your kou.

Pedroski · 10-21-2010, 01:41 AM

You're almost as hard to convince as I am!!

Here is a screenshot from nciku:

Bruce Hill · 10-21-2010, 02:30 AM

I see the screenshot. You just don't get it ...

Your hand drawn character above does NOT have radical caozitou on the top.
Your hand drawn character has three heng strokes in the kou, not two. What
you drew is NOT a Chinese character. What you displayed in post #10 is the
Simplified zhe on the left, the Traditional zhe on the right.

Look at these three shots:

Simplified zhe; Traditional zhe; Simplified dao:

Notice that your hand drawn character has the same strokes on the top as
dao and the Simplified zhe ... which I believe is na, pie, heng ... you do
not have heng, shu, shu as in the Traditional zhe.

Your hand drawn character also has shu, heng zhe gou, heng, heng, heng. It
has one too many heng strokes. The Traditional zhe has two hengs there.

You either can't draw what iBus outputs, or it's outputting a Traditional
zhe and you don't want to show us a screenshot of that output.

Pedroski · 10-21-2010, 02:55 AM

I take that back: you are as hard to convince as I am.
I attach another screenshot from nciku, and one from mdbg. What I want to get, when I write pinyin 'zhe', is what mdbg gives me. nciku shows the 'funny' zhe, with the same meaning. Who changed it and why?

Even niku doesn't draw it like the printed character, they do the same as mdbg

Left is nciku zhe, right is the drawn correct version, from mdbg.

Bruce Hill · 10-21-2010, 03:16 AM

You have 2 different fonts of the Simplified character zhe. I don't know which is
your screenshot from which place. You say "What I want to get, when I write pinyin
'zhe', is what mdbg gives me." Which one is that -- left or right? And where are
you inputting zhe and not getting what you've posted? I will say the one on the left
does look like shu going down through the three hungs rather than pie.

It's probably useless to ask again, but give us a screenshot from your computer when
you input zhe and get the wrong Hanzi in an actual app on your computer, not in some
online Chinese dictionary. Like this in OpenOffice.org:

Pedroski · 10-21-2010, 05:41 AM

Here, fresh from the document, is my OO zhe

In my previous post, there is a screenshot of nciku, with the funny zhe, on the left. On the right is the drawn zhe from mdbg. mdbg also displays the, in my opinion, correct zhe, a printed version of the above right zhe from mdbg

Attached here is the zhe I get from OO, which I don't like, and my students say is wrong.

Bruce Hill · 10-21-2010, 05:48 AM

Nothing to work with there ... you don't display anything at all that
gives a clue if this really came from iBus, if it's actually in OOo,
what font you used, nothing.