What is going to be the best/most efficient partition layout please?

I have to maintain windows XP (about 20 gig's), but I now have 94.5 gig's of free space, so I can install mandrake 9.1 and gentoo 1.4

I have tried and failed to set it up so i have windows/mandrake/swap/gentoo.

I got the windows and mandrake running fine (and no prob's with the swap either), but I could install the gentoo, but couldn't get it too boot.

so I want to try the approach of having it so the setup is windows/gentoo/swap/mandrake i.e. get the gentoo installed first.

The gentoo default installation would be for hda1 to be boot, hda2 for swap and hda3 for root.

But as I need to have the XP, and if I just start shoving disc's in, I run out of primary partitions rather quickly + I would need to keep hda1 for windows, to I'm presuming that it would be just a case of using different partition numbers ??

So what would be the best suggestion ?

I did think of having windows and swap as primary and then extended/logical for mandrake and gentoo - but I have read somewhere that it would be better if I only had one boot partition not 2 ?

Also, if I can only have 4 primary partitions, does that mean 4 primary partitions and as many extended/logical ones as I want, or does an extended partition take the place of a primary one ??

Any idea's or suggestions very much appreciated

regards

John

her is what I have on my system
/dev/hda4 is my extended partition, which takes the place of my last primary partition. 5,6,7,8 are all logical partitions.

I use 3 for my gentoo boot
4 is not used for any os it is used to organize(term?) all of my logiclal partitions
I use 5 for my gentoo root
I use 6 for slackware boot and root #I did it that way for simplicity when I installed slack(noob)
I use 7 for my swap for both slack and gentoo
I use 8 for a shared fat partition for windows and linux

# Partitioning
Linux Partition HOWTO
Rute - Partitions, File Systems, Formatting, Mounting
Proper Filesystem Layout

How about a practical example of a 5 OS booting scheme?

My partitioning scheme:HTH

Thank you both (so far),

I can sort of see what you've both done, and I've tried to digest the references, especially the tldp one from fancypiper.

So, I can only have 1 extended partition ? If so, does it have to be hda4 and will it always number from 5 onwards (sorry I didn't follow what the references said on this part)?

Also, one of the ref's, showed an example with hda1 as boot and hda2 as windows (win 98 I think) - I understood that windows has to go first - one of it's little idiosyncrasies. Is this correct or could it go second with boot being the first ???

Another question, is that does swap have to be primary or can it be either ?

The same question applies to boot partitions, primary, logical or either ?

Should a boot partition be first, so it can take the boot info i.e. the kernel version and initrd for all linux installations?

Would using lilo cause much of a problem, because I've looked at grub and IMO would cause me too much confusion learning a new numbering convention just for a boot loader - from my view, lilo is more "straight forward" ????

And although it might be overkill, if I opted for following the guide that suggests that var, usr, tmp, home and boot have their own partitions, is there any useful way of working out just how much space I should allocate to each ????

which if I followed, would mean that I would end up with 12 partitions including swap and windows, although I could get that down to maybe 10 with common boot and common home - but where the hell does root go in such a system ???

Because I don't quite follow what actually understand what goes in where under such a scheme, I understand that it makes upgrading easier ?? So as I'm also about to order a dvd powerpack of mandrake 9.2 for when it's available, under the above system, which parts would actually get up graded ?? (no point in setting it up if it's going to get me back to "square 1" when the 9.2 arrives) ??

Sorry for the further questions, but I'm trying to get as much info as possible before I actually embark on this (even though I absolutely hate only having access to windows at the moment ).

Thanks for the advice so far.

regards

John

You want One /boot partition, right up next to the XP (If XP is the only MS OS) or after the first MS partition.

IF USING GRUB FORCES YOU TO WRITE OUT A PLAN FOR INSTALLATION AND PROPER SYNTAX IN YOUR LOG BOOK--BY ALL MEANS USE GRUB.

It is a bitch to do, but on the web a guy proved he could have: DOS (on the first partition which he marked inactive and hidden), Win98se, /boot (for Linux-es), The extended partition (this makes up the four possible primaries), NT, XP, and 5 different Linux distros--All bootable through GRUB. Grub is g-o-o-d.

XP and NT are perfectly happy booting from the first logical partition (or even the second if first is NT-based--like W2K, NT, or XP) if 98se or higher resides within the first (visible) partition.

He read the Docs.

For each additional Linux distribution you install you will leave the /boot specific to each OS left as a directory within the respective "/".

The swap partition can be either primary or logical--it doesn't matter.

After the installation BEFORE REBOOTING, you will want to add an entry in /boot/grub/grub.conf which gives a specific hardware address for the new installation "/" you will also want to duplicate all of the entries in the respective /boot/grub/grub.conf directories. You will want them to be exact duplicates--with the entries in the exact same order. This will not only prevent confusion, but will give you alternatives should something hose up. Always make the emergency boot floppies as well and label them.

If you are unfamiliar, with mounting other directories/partitions: you would make a directory for each partition you wish to mount in the /mnt directory (mkdir /mnt/main_boot; mkdir /mnt/other_root) then mount them (mount -t auto /dev/hda2 /mnt/main_root; mount -t auto /dev/hda7 /mnt/other_root).
At this point you can "cd" into the respective /boot/grub/grub.conf files and do your editing--most of which is simple copy then paste type edits.

Having done that, upon reboot you should have the entry for the new Linux distro as an option to boot up.

Each Linux OS and kernel must have unique names. I found that there is more than one way to set up the boot-up and bzipped Linux kernel images. I choose not to walk you through them. I would like you to do some reading on grub and the boot process. There is a tremendous amount of stuff in the archives of this site and many others for muliple Linux boot up configuration. It is unfortunate, but the only way to learn is to do your own searches and a lot of reading. If you get a walk-though, there is no sense of accomplishment, and worse there is no retention of the information.

The most elegant way I have seen it done was to not run grub or lilo when doing the additional installation. The /boot partition /boot/grub/grub.conf was edited to point to the installation.

Using the floppy to boot up the new installation, the person upgraded to the same kernel, libraries and applications so that the non-distribution specific things were identical, then they set up the different "/" entries in the /boot partition, then when the initrd got to the "pivot_root" command--it was pointed to the specific distro. The Linux user then "diff" -ed each partition, tested different mounted configurations in /etc/fstab, checked the different links and where they pointed, and somehow eliminated all duplication. (His comment was, "You just have to dink with it until you figure it out.)

I haven't done it that way myself yet--because I don't have the time right now to recover everything if I hose it all up. When I get the time and the inclination, I shall do it just for practice.

Linux boots fine from logical partitions, and will support up to 59 of them, so you have plenty of opportunity for as many linux distros as you like.

You can have up to 4 primary partitions or 3 primary and one extended partition that can contain a bunch of logical partitions. Logical partitions start with hdX5Windows 98 is happiest on the first primary partition. 2k and XP can use others. Any Windows install wipes the bootloader if it is in the MBR, so it should be installed first.EitherEither

Not necessarily

Not if you understand it.

LILO fails: Error messages and their interpretation
LILO mini HOWTO
Multiboot with LILO HOWTO
LILO, Linux Crash Rescue HOW-TO
Installing a bootloaderBoot should have enough room for all your kernels and other stuff that goes there. Probably somewhere between 20 and 100 MB. Basically, I use /, /boot and /home for my installs since it is a workstation rather than a server. I used 3.5 gig for each distro's / as I mess around with software

Root is always /, the root of the filesystem.

It makes doing things without losing info easier.

These might come in handy.

# Pre-installation guides
GNU/Linux pre-installation checklist
The Pre-Installation Help File

# Linux filesystem structure
Directory Navigation Help File
Filesystems, Directories, and Devices Help File
Advanced filesystem implementor's guide (requires registration)

Just to finish with this thread,

With all your replies, I managed to set my hard drive up as

hda1 - primary - XP

hda2 - primary - /boot

hda3 - primary - swap

hda4 - extended

hda5 - logical - gentoo

hda6 - logical - mandrake

Which seems to work ok. I understand that grub IS a good bootloader, but so is lilo and I haven't managed to convince myself the need for change.

I've managed to get the gentoo booting from lilo, but apart from all the other shit I'm having to learn about it, I've only just worked out that although I've already modified my /etc/lilo.conf the gentoo insist's that I have to mount /dev/hda2 before I can run /sbin/lilo - silly little things like that.

But like "British Rail", I'll get there eventually. Oh and fortunately I had the good sense to make a mandrake boot floppy until I can boot it from the hard drive.

Again, thanks for all the assistance.

regards

John

I would also recommend a separate /home partition that you can share between distros.

so...i just want to check i have followed this correctly...

a) i can have a common /boot for any number of distros?
b) i can have a common /home for any number of distros?
c) i can have all my linux partitions in extended?

d) as an example I could have

hda1 Win98
hda2 Win98
hda3 /boot
hda4 ext
hda5 /swap
hda6 /vec_root
hda7 /deb_root
hda8 /home

I could equally make hda2 or hda3 /swap, /home, /boot, whatever, correct?

e) the tricky bit is setting up LILO/GRUB?
f) is setting up the shared /home simple enough?

cheers!

Well I only just noticed the fancypipers idea of having a common /home which is a shame as I'd already set it up as I posted earlier - and I'm not quite sure how I'd change it.

Bollocks, bollocks, bollocks.

I say that, because I'm having a right old time of things sorting out my X

I've tried modifying things, but it still seems incorrect. I get a little flickering when typing in text or scrolling the mouse (in gentoo), whereas things are just "hunky dory" with mandrake.

I did think about copying the XF86Config file from mandrake to gentoo, but it appears that I have at least 2 in mandrake, the normal one and one marked -4 which i understand is normal when using xfree 4.x - the confusing thing being that I can't find one in the gentoo install and I'm sure that the gentoo is using version 4.x as well.

Hence this "gentoo lark" is proving to be considerably more of a "learning curve" than I'd expected/hoped.


for dibblethewrecke

When I was trying to get the gentoo correct to start with, I had a hell of a game getting it installed - I was trying to put it into one partition - a la mandrake, but I couldn't get it to boot irrespective of what I tried.

It was after I started this thread that I managed to get it installed using the 3 partition method (which is gentoo default method), I installed the gentoo first then the mandrake and just told it which partitions to put which bits into i.e. the boot, root and swap then I just made sure that the kernel link/shortcut and intird for mandrake where there and then just followed my own instuctions as to what I had to have in the lilo.conf from another thread that I posted here.

It worked a treat - and apart from the nuisance of having to re-install and config all the preferences in mandrake (I do seem to have a penchant for eye candy and hence it seemed to take for ever to get all the extra graphics etc etc stuff re-installed from the plf and texstar) - anyway - it leaves me free to boot into gentoo to carry on trying to learn it and how things work - not that I have much of a clue even when I manage to get things right - all a little hit and miss.

so the only thing that I can't confirm for you is the part about having a common /home I don't know how that would work.

happy christmas

regards

John

dibblethewrecke: a-d yes

e. If you understand lilo or grub, you should have no problems. Just remember that in distros that don't leave /boot mounted after boot, you have to mount it before you can edit your /boot/grub/grub.conf

f. A common /home should be no problem. Just have it in your /etc/fstab for each distro and make sure the common usernames have the same UID (user ID) numbers and names.

i have developed a weird problem - it has happened before tho.

i just got a new hard disk and used booit NG to copy ALL my partitions across from my old disk to the new. my partitions are set up like this:

hda1 Win98
hda2 Win98
hda3 Win98
hda4 ext
hda5 /
hda6 /swp
hda7 /home

problem is (and this happened before) hda4 is now showing in windows as drive d: but click on it and it ain't there! very annoying as all shortcuts are wrong now!

what happened? i guess the MBR is wrong. last time i fixed it by deleting the extended partition and recreating it in fdisk - but there must be a better way!

Since I am unfamiliar with either the utility ( or maybe just the way you referred to it) I have to give you the long form.

If it boots anything the MBR is probably ok.

There is a difference between cloning and copying. You just found that out.

The partition table has many "flags" which are set in order to describe the function and general filesystem of the each partition. How it is set during the copy process is determined by a script and search function within the copy program. If it is an "image", all of that information is preserved. A copy, demands more work on the part of the administator for proper restoration. This is one of the few times a text file is supposed to be found on the root of a partition or drive in Linux. You must always assume you will not remember, and never depend blindly on someone else's scripts. If it is the only textfile or README in the root of a partition, you will always be able to find it.

Using a copy type script is one of the most efficient means of defragmenting a filesystem. But, you have to know what you are doing as you can make the partition unbootable. The order in which the files are put into the root of the partition/drive is very important, as the boot-loader uses an offset to find the binary image to load into ram--this is a hint for windows as well. It takes experimentation to make it work in either operating system(--but most especially in windows). This is why it is easiest and safest to use an image utility like partimage for linux or Acronis TrueImage for everything. For me, Ghost is too slow.

For a dual-boot environment only one partition has the bootable flag. The bios on the mother board only knows how to load one bootable partition (generally the only choice is SCSI or IDE booting). This is why boot managers and such are required.

In fdisk (linux version) you also have to check the flags and description of the extended partition. To make it compatable for dual booting the extended must be labelled win-95-fat32 LBA (I can't remember exactly, you need to use the menu command and the list known partition types commands. Also, make sure that the partition isn't toggled to bootable. Also, just to be sure that windows doesn't get mad at you:
1) Any more than one primary (besides extended) should be Linux--or--any other non-compatable to windows filesystem. It may work okay for Win2K or XP, but sooner or later you will experience a "burp" and find your partition tables to be hosed up. Especially, for some reason, if you have any of Norton's products installed.
2) The first logical partition (partition within the extended partition) should be a windows partition. This will make your life easier, as windows will not burp your partition table (and possibly assign letters in a half-assed way like you are experiencing). There are those who also recommend making a (hidden and small if not used) windows partition as the last partition within the extended partition if all of the drive space is to be assigned--for the same reason. This means that if you are planning to fill up the drive completely, leave enough room to create a small-hidden-windows partition to be created last. Partitions have to be created in the order in which they will be layed out on the drive. (Unless you learn how to use the extended command-set in the linux version of fdisk or have DriveImage, or Partition Magic.)

errrrrr....not sure if you understood my question correctly there. Windows and Linux boot fine - it's just that in windows, if i look in my computer, i have an extra drive (in the D: position for some reason) which is actually not really there - you can't click on it or doing anything. i *guessed* that this was the extended partition being displayed in windows, all the logical partitions are linux.

if your answer relates to this then i apologise - but i don't understand your suggested action! sorry!

Read the entire post. Especially the part about windows getting "mad" at you.

/***If the partition type for the extended partition is Windows 95 vfat32 extended LBA windows will assign a drive letter in the expectation of finding a windows logical partition within the extended partition--to avoid this, and still give yourself the option of adding windows partitions to unused space on the drive, make a small-hidden-windows partition as the first logical partition of the extended partition. With that case, the letter assignment will not be f*cked because it will detect a windows partition which is hidden and will not assign a letter in anticipation of a partition. Essentially, for windows any extended partition which is defined as a "windows extended partition" MUST contain at least one (as the first logical partition) windows partition or it is an ERROR. The first logical partition contains another partition table, just like the second sector of the hard drive. If a flag exists for a hidden partition of windows-type, and there are no other windows-accessable partitions, windows will remove the drive assignment letter which it created in anticipation of a partition held within the extended partition.***/

/****Also, I am given to understand that the letter assignments for IDE/SCSI in windows is C:\ for the first primary, D:\for extended + logical-drive_#1 and so on, ONLY AFTER PARSING THE ENTIRE EXTENDED PARTITION FOR WINDOWS_TYPE LOGICAL PARTITIONS ARE DRIVE LETTERS ASSIGNED TO OTHER PRIMARY PARTITIONS AND DEVICES.****/

Use linux fdisk to check the flags on the extended partition type--but understand this IF the partition is labelled Win95 Vfat32 LBA EXTENDED (that would be using the p command for linux fdisk on the command-line in console. The available types are defined in the "list known partition types" command.) windows is going to expect that the first--and possibly the last--of the logical partitions located within the extended partition will be a WINDOWS partition. If you are sure that you will never need to put another windows type partition in the extended partition, change the "type" to linux extended.

It is always best to have any WINDOWS partitions in addition to the first primary, located within the extended partition. This is not my recommendation, it is paraphrased directly from microsoft. Windows 2000 and XP will boot from the first logical partition happily (If you are triple-booting Win 95/Win98/NT/Win2000 + NT-4/Win 2000/WinXP + Linux) as long as you use their boot-loader (that is what the reference to the +chain-loader entry in Lilo or Grub for windows is all about). You can get much more than you ever wanted to know in the Microsoft Knowledge Base using the keywords multi-boot, multiple boot, Microsoft Knowledge Base Article - Q102873 (Boot.ini and ARC loader paths and info).

Also, if you are going to have linux partitions located within an extended partition--AND--additional windows partitions located within the extended partition, for the least number of problems--The FIRST and LAST logical partitions located within the extended partition should be of the windows-type.