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Old 01-24-2014, 09:16 PM   #46
jlinkels
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Well, we all know that Debian Stable is not really bleeding edge at the date it is released, let alone one year after the release of its successor. But thanks for letting me know that any attempt is in vain to find a decent browser which runs in Squeeze.

Off-topic, I know I should upgrade of course. Wheezy is fine, I have already several machines running Wheezy. But I have so many other things to do. Like moving my server to new hardware and upgrade it at the same time. It still runs Lenny! And my wife's computer. And configuring my mail VPS. At least that one runs Wheezy. However my main machine cannot be upgraded, it must be newly installed. I did some really stupid things two years ago with the video drivers and movie codecs, and mixing Stable with Testing and Unstable. Long story short, I damaged the apt management system somehow.

So when time permits I'll upgrade, dump Opera and evaluate carefully the new default browser, including Chromium and Firefox/Iceweasel.

jlinkels
 
Old 01-24-2014, 09:50 PM   #47
Timothy Miller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Well, we all know that Debian Stable is not really bleeding edge at the date it is released, let alone one year after the release of its successor. But thanks for letting me know that any attempt is in vain to find a decent browser which runs in Squeeze.

jlinkels
Note I never said you can't find a DECENT browser. I said you won't find a browser that has the features you asked for. There is quite a huge difference. There is absolutely nothing WRONG with Firefox/Iceweasel 3.5 functionally. It's simply that it's rather old, and many of the features that you'd like to see have been implemented long after it, and at least some of the plugins that allow that functionality won't support a browser that old. That doesn't prevent it from being decent, it simply prevents it from fulfilling the criteria you asked for.
 
Old 01-25-2014, 06:06 AM   #48
jlinkels
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Decent might have been the incorrect wording, let me try to rephrase. "A browser with the features and properties as Opera already offered 4 years ago" might do better. Most major browsers are decent.

Let me give you this example.
Yesterday in the course of the day while this was being discussed I re-enabled Speed dial in Chrome on my main machine. Added a few shortcuts. Made sure I enabled synchronization wherever I could. I was signed in all the time.

Yesterday night in bed I switched on my laptop. Re-enabled speed dial there as well. Got a message: "Speed dial now offers full synchronization". And another advertisement. "Install Foxblahblah speed dial to enhance your browsing experience". What the heck? I had speed dial installed. Are there more flavors? Does anyone think I want to find out? I want it to just work. I prefer not to install any extension for this. Let alone do a full survey on which extension I want to install. Or make a choice and go and install that extension on all 8 computers I use more or less regularly? And whatever, the speed dials on my laptop were empty. No matter the the advertisement how well synchronization would work now. I was signed in all the time.

Anyway, Opera is dead. I'd better learn to live with it.

jlinkels

Last edited by jlinkels; 01-25-2014 at 06:07 AM.
 
Old 01-25-2014, 11:36 AM   #49
rokytnji
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I just do what I want cuz it's Linux.

http://antix.freeforums.org/post33050.html#p33050
 
Old 01-25-2014, 06:23 PM   #50
Timothy Miller
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Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
I just do what I want cuz it's Linux.

http://antix.freeforums.org/post33050.html#p33050
How's the html5 support on that? I heard 27 was supposed to be the version when Firefox stops using the flash plugin and goes to a native html5 implementation to play flash content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
A browser with the features and properties as Opera already offered 4 years ago" might do better. Most major browsers are decent.
Also, remember that the version of Firefox available on Squeeze is a 5 year old version. Even the backports version is nearly 4 years old. So you're talking about versions before many of that became popular and people wanted it.

Last edited by Timothy Miller; 01-25-2014 at 06:28 PM.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 07:45 AM   #51
jlinkels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
Also, remember that the version of Firefox available on Squeeze is a 5 year old version. Even the backports version is nearly 4 years old. So you're talking about versions before many of that became popular and people wanted it.
Well it seems to be hard to have my point get through. I am trying to use Chrome. I am browsing this forum. Tooltips drive me nuts. When I am reading thrue a page I can't stand flashes, movements and moving text. They are obscuring the titles of the next 3 threads when my mouse accidentally over a thread title. In exactly which version of Chrome I can disable those darned tooltips?

jlinkels
 
Old 01-26-2014, 01:18 PM   #52
Timothy Miller
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What version of chrome? If it's anywhere near current, install notscripts, that'll prevent all the flash stuff. As far as tooltips, there is no way to turn it off, users have quite literally been asking for the ability to turn it off since 2009, with Google ignoring our pleas for such.
 
Old 01-27-2014, 04:58 AM   #53
gradinaruvasile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
What version of chrome? If it's anywhere near current, install notscripts, that'll prevent all the flash stuff. As far as tooltips, there is no way to turn it off, users have quite literally been asking for the ability to turn it off since 2009, with Google ignoring our pleas for such.
I dont know what you mean by the "flash stuff", but Chrome has a feature named "click to play" in the advanced settings (its been there for quite a while) that prevents plugins from loading by default - you see only a placeholder and it is loaded if you click it or you can close the plugin's area without actually loading it.
BTW this is better than Opera's click to play, since that didnt offer a way of getting rid of the overlaying flash objects without actually loading them and searching for a close button.

I was an Opera user too - it had many handy features built in, worked fast and had an easy to use interface + a standards compliant engine. Now i use Seamonkey which works really well despite its 90's interface and can be easily customized to offer fast access to bookmarks (no speed dial, only through extensions).

PS. Firefox, Seamonkey both can be downloaded directly from their respective official sites, they have native 32 and 64 bit Linux versions there that work well and auto update themselves (IF they are placed in a directory that is WRITABLE by the user) exactly like the Windows versions. Only that you have to manually create links for them in the menus/toolbars/desktop.
Also, the latest legacy Flash plugin can be downloaded from Adobe's site, they have a generic Linux version that can be extracted in the ~/.mozilla/plugins folder.
Chrome - if you use Intel video card or AMD with the OSS drivers, you might find it choppy/tearing on playback with high cpu usage (both html5 and flash). The solution is to force it to use hardware acceleration for playback (i dont know the method from the top of my head right now) - this is because they blacklisted some OSS driver versions (which work perfectly well in Firefox/Seamonkey btw), disabling both accelerated video playback and webgl..
 
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:11 AM   #54
cwizardone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gradinaruvasile View Post
...I was an Opera user too - it had many handy features built in, worked fast and had an easy to use interface + a standards compliant engine. Now i use Seamonkey which works really well despite its 90's interface and can be easily customized to offer fast access to bookmarks (no speed dial, only through extensions)...
Ditto on SeaMonkey. It has even more features and/or add-ons, that I've found useful, anyway, than Opera 12.16, but Opera 12.16 is a little faster, especially if a web page contains a number of jpeg images. Overall, I've come to prefer SeaMonkey and I doubt I would change back to Opera even if it were to be resurrected.
As to the SeaMonkey interface, there are a large number of themes that can be used to give it a more "modern" appearance, but, OTOH, I don't see anything "wrong" with the standard interface.

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-31-2014 at 10:15 AM.
 
Old 01-31-2014, 10:31 AM   #55
JWJones
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Meh, Opera developers seem to hate Linux users anyway, so screw them:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7129955
 
Old 01-31-2014, 11:44 AM   #56
ruario
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Hardly, he only joined the desktop team in the last year and he never worked on the desktop linux product himself. Furthermore we have made light hearted jokes about needing to recompiling the Linux kernel, caring about single pixels on Mac and Windows always blue screening for as long as I have been in the desktop team (a little over 5 years). I think he just didn't get our sense of humour.
 
Old 01-31-2014, 11:48 AM   #57
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^Aha, good to know!
 
Old 01-31-2014, 12:02 PM   #58
gradinaruvasile
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@ruario:
Is there a chance to have a Linux version anytime soon?
 
Old 01-31-2014, 02:47 PM   #59
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Lets start with a little background and perspective. Before I begin, I should make it clear that I am not a top line decision maker at Opera, nor am I included in all the management discussions and debates, so what I say here is not 'official' but rather my own personal opinion based on how I have perceived things. It may not be spot on but it is probably more informed than most and almost certainly more informed than people who are not working at Opera.

The switch to a Chromium base was made (as I understand it), not due to some great conspiracy with Google (or anyone else) forcing us to do anything. Rather it was made because whilst the Presto browser was doing OK, it was not doing great. And the costs involved in treading water (i.e. just doing 'OK') were ever increasing. There were also signs beginning to appear that we might start slipping backwards and losing the position and market share we had fought so hard for. This is not surprising when you consider that the other major browser makers are either the behemoths of the IT industry (e.g. Google, Safari and Microsoft) or an organization backed by the open source/free software movement (Mozilla). It is also worth considering that two of those organisations (Google and Apple) were sharing development of their rendering engine with each other (and others), since Webkit (and its recent fork Blink) are open source. On the other hand we did all the work on Presto ourselves. To be honest I think it is amazing we have done as well as we have and Presto is a testament to very hard working team.

I often wonder if Opera had not taken a leap of faith and made a change, how long we could have continued to survive. And if Presto faltered and disappeared into oblivion that would have meant no Opera Linux browser anyway. The change to Webkit/Blink was not about hating Linux or our current user base. It was about putting us back in a position where we could continue to fight and offer people another alternative with a different spin on things.

So from my perspective, the switch to Blink had to be done. Once this decision was taken it was not surprising to me that all major development had to be switched to Blink, since this was the quickest way to get the new browser out. There couldn't be years of delays or everyone would have given up on us anyway. To further shorten the time to get a decent product (by that I mean something that people would actually want to use) out there, it is again unsurprising that certain compromises were made, such as focussing on bigger platforms first (or for that matter dropping features). The bigger platforms represent the majority of our current users (and potential users) and therefore these are also the platforms that make us most of our money (remember that Opera is a for-profit company, whether you like it or not).

Our Linux user base is small and hence had to come second but that doesn't mean we don't care about them. Far from it, in my eyes the main reason we have ever made a Linux product is because we love Linux. I do not have exact figures but I would hazard a guess that it is the most used platform amongst our technical staff (i.e. excluding HR, marketing, design, etc.). Even our upper management are Linux fans. The head of our consumer browsing division, who reports directly to the CEO has been a Linux user since 1995 and last time I checked our CTO, Håkon Wium Lie ("the Father of CSS") is also a Linux user.

So yes we mean it when we say we intend to release a Linux browser based on Blink. The hold up was simply getting to a position where our Blink Opera had proven itself to be a success and I think we are pretty much there. Despite what the naysayers predicted Opera powered by Blink is growing nicely.

Now to your question (and everyone's question), "when will it appear?". If I could tell you I would but I don't feel I could give you an accurate prediction as there are a few variables at play. If you can't wait and want to look elsewhere I understand but I hope you might give it a spin when it appears, to see how it compares with the competition and if it suits your needs. It might not, as it won't have the exact feature set of Presto Opera but there are a growing number of users who do like it, so I think it will be worth having a play with. Also, don't forget the Presto version still exists and as of right now is still receiving security updates. It continues to be a great browser and I still use it regularly.

P.S. I'm following this thread but I can't promise I will answer every criticism. It is tiresome and somewhat depressing, particularly when it is obvious that some people will never be convinced, so I'll just be wasting my breath.

Last edited by ruario; 01-31-2014 at 03:50 PM. Reason: corrected or removed some odd sentences; yes "Chromium", thanks for the correction cwizardone
 
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:06 PM   #60
cwizardone
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First, Thank you for taking the time to respond.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post

...The switch to Presto was made (as I understand it)....

You meant, Chromium?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruario View Post
...Now to your question (and everyone's question), "when will it appear?". If I could tell you I would but I don't feel I could give you an accurate prediction as there are a few variables at play. If you can't wait and want to look elsewhere I understand but I hope you might give it a spin when it appears, to see how it compares with the competition and if it suits your needs. It might not, as it won't have the exact feature set of Presto Opera but there are a growing number of users who do like it, so I think it will be worth having a play with....

I downloaded 19.xxx for windows the other day and ran it for a while inside a virtual machine (VB). It still won't work if you, the user, block it from tracking your every movement. Are there any plans to give the user the option of turning that off?
Thanks.

Last edited by cwizardone; 01-31-2014 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Typo.
 
  


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