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Old 03-31-2014, 11:31 AM   #1
MatthewLM
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Is LMDE best for me?


Hi.

I installed Linux Mint 16 the other day but I'm sure I've made a mistake doing that. Linux Mint doesn't have a supported/recommended upgrade procedure which means you should install from scratch each time. I don't like that at all. Also I've been reading that Linux Mint aims to be more stable than Ubuntu by disabling certain updates, but this includes security updates (no kernel updates whatsoever). You can enable them but then LM becomes as unstable as ubuntu (non-LTS).

What I want then is a distro which is easy to upgrade and is quick to bring security and bug updates. I also want it to be acceptably reliable. Maybe a few minor bugs is bearable but I don't want, for instance, to update software and then the system fails to boot like has happened with Ubuntu in the past.

The LTS releases of Ubuntu appear to be a reasonable option, if one waits a while before upgrading to the latest, as they have a greater focus on testing.

Though LMDE is an option which would give more continual updates and my experience so far with Linux Mint feels better than with Ubuntu, and I wont have to worry about replacing Unity, as I can have MATE already included with LMDE.

I was wondering if anyone else could bring any input to my thinking?

Thanks,

Matthew.

Last edited by MatthewLM; 03-31-2014 at 03:30 PM.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 11:57 AM   #2
ivtec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLM View Post
Hi.

I installed Linux Mint 16 the other day but I'm sure I've made a mistake doing that. Linux Mint doesn't have a supported/recommended upgrade procedure which means you should install from scratch each time. I don't like that at all. Also I've been reading that Linux Mint aims to be more stable than Ubuntu by disabling certain updates, but this includes security updates (no kernel updates whatsoever). You can enable them but then LM becomes as unstable as ubuntu (non-LTS).

What I want then is a distro which is easy to upgrade and is quick to bring security and bug updates. I also want it to be acceptably reliable/stable. Maybe a few minor bugs is bearable but I don't want, for instance, to update software and then the system fails to boot like has happened with Ubuntu in the past.

The LTS releases of Ubuntu appear to be a reasonable option, if one waits a while before upgrading to the latest, as they have a greater focus on testing.

Though LMDE is an option which would give more continual updates and my experience so far with Linux Mint feels better than with Ubuntu, and I wont have to worry about replacing Unity, as I can have MATE already included with LMDE.

I was wondering if anyone else could bring any input to my thinking?

Thanks,

Matthew.
Then install Xubuntu 14.04 beta1 and you will a have better support, and you can use gnome classic if you want the old fill and it's pretty fast and good.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 12:44 PM   #3
snowpine
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If you are looking for stability then I do not recommend LMDE (since it is based on Debian Testing).

I personally use and recommend Linux Mint with Xfce desktop. I do updates "the Debian way" (all available updates, including security and kernel updates) rather than "the Mint way" and I've never had any crashes or other problems. There is a new LTS release coming in a few weeks that will be supported through 2019.

Also I would encourage you to rethink the "it's too hard to reinstall every six months" philosophy. While it might seem like an onerous burden, in practice it takes about 1 hour each time, or 2 hours per year. If you think about it, Windows users spend at least 2 hours per year on system administration tasks (such as defragging the hard drive, scanning for viruses, etc.) and not necessarily on a predictable, published timeline.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 01:20 PM   #4
DavidMcCann
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If you look closely, you'll find that a lot of the security updates are irrelevant to you: things like preventing possible DOS attacks on a server, for example. With Fedora, I always did the upgrades manually to avoid being given fixes I didn't need and which actually caused problems. Really, you can have quick upgrades and you can have stability, but it's not easy to deliver both.

If you use a distro with a short cycle like Mint or Fedora, then it's a good idea to keep a list of extra software you installed: it's infuriating to have to stop what you're doing to get some program you forgot to add! But Mint is such an easy and quick install that I don't see it as creating a problem.

I'd suggest you get the LTS version of Mint when it's released. Alternatively, have a look at PCLinuxOS: it's rolling release but intended for non-expert home users, so they exercise more restraint than bleeding-edge distros like Arch, Sabayon, or Debian testing.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 02:35 PM   #5
MatthewLM
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Thanks for the replies.

Quote:
If you are looking for stability then I do not recommend LMDE (since it is based on Debian Testing).
Isn't the normal Linux Mint based off ubuntu, which is based off Debian unstable (except LTS releases which are apparently from Debian testing)? More testing is done through the Ubuntu and Mint teams no doubt, but then so is more testing done with LMDE, and it's taken from the testing branch. I've not heard many complaints about the quality of LMDE, but I have for ubuntu and I've experienced problems myself with ubuntu. To be fair with Mint, I've not heard many issues with it though. From what I know it seems the LTS releases of Ubuntu would be best, if I was to go with Ubuntu. Maybe regular releases of Linux Mint are safe, but I'm slightly wary. Doing fresh installs of Ubuntu as with Linux Mint might also be best as many of the problems I've had with it previously was with the distro upgrades. That actually takes Ubuntu out of the question, as I might as well go with Linux Mint then.

So therefore it would be LMDE vs Regular Mint, unless something else is better suited.

Quote:
Also I would encourage you to rethink the "it's too hard to reinstall every six months" philosophy. While it might seem like an onerous burden, in practice it takes about 1 hour each time, or 2 hours per year
I did read this: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2

I assume that the restoration of the home directory and software would restore most settings/configuration as they are mostly within the home directory? What about inconsistencies between package versions? What about settings not stored in the home directory? What about third party applications? Some things may also need to be rebuilt from source, taking longer than an hour for sure. There's more to think about with the fresh install.

Quote:
If you look closely, you'll find that a lot of the security updates are irrelevant to you: things like preventing possible DOS attacks on a server, for example.
True, but I'd like to know there would be an update if a serious vulnerability was found.

I might look at PCLinuxOS thank you.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 03:27 PM   #6
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLM View Post
Isn't the normal Linux Mint based off ubuntu, which is based off Debian unstable (except LTS releases which are apparently from Debian testing)? More testing is done through the Ubuntu and Mint teams no doubt, but then so is more testing done with LMDE, and it's taken from the testing branch. I've not heard many complaints about the quality of LMDE, but I have for ubuntu and I've experienced problems myself with ubuntu. To be fair with Mint, I've not heard many issues with it though. From what I know it seems the LTS releases of Ubuntu would be best, if I was to go with Ubuntu. Maybe regular releases of Linux Mint are safe, but I'm slightly wary. Doing fresh installs of Ubuntu as with Linux Mint might also be best as many of the problems I've had with it previously was with the distro upgrades. That actually takes Ubuntu out of the question, as I might as well go with Linux Mint then.
Debian Stable, Mint, and Ubuntu are all examples of "stable" distributions, meaning they release on a fixed schedule and then don't change much.

Debian Testing, Debian Unstable, and LMDE are examples of "rolling" or "unstable" distributions, meaning they get constant updates and do not have distinct releases.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 03:33 PM   #7
MatthewLM
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OK, I don't care about stability then, rather reliability/fewer bugs.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 03:51 PM   #8
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLM View Post
OK, I don't care about stability then, rather reliability/fewer bugs.
In my opinion/experience, there is a correlation between these factors.

I would consider Debian Stable to be the optimum combination of stable, reliable, and fewest bugs.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 04:07 PM   #9
MatthewLM
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Well I want it to be reliable, as well as have easy (and reliable) upgrading if possible. PCLinuxOS does seem to offer this combination but I don't know much about it yet. Initially I was wondering if LMDE had this combination.
 
Old 04-01-2014, 01:35 AM   #10
jdkaye
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I'd suggest trying Debian Testing (Jessie, at the moment). That seems to best fit your requirements. I've run it for many, many years and have had very few problems that couldn't be fixed with a simple command or two. Furthermore, I installed it on one of the machines in my friend's internet shop and it ran for 5 years with virtually no down time. I'd say Debian Testing is your best bet. Try it for yourself.
jdk
 
Old 04-01-2014, 03:54 AM   #11
k3lt01
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If you're thinking of using LMDE you may as well use Debian testing and be done with it. I would suggest you actually install Debian 7 (wheezy) and enable backports. There is still a good 12 months, maybe much longer if Debian does the LTS release they are currently discussing, in Wheezy as stable.
 
Old 04-01-2014, 08:14 AM   #12
MatthewLM
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I suppose the benefit of LMDE over Debian testing would be that the updates are packaged and tested together, so I would assume there is less change of things going wrong. I suppose it shouldn't be too hard installing the things I want for debian but LMDE comes with most of it already. Debian testing would give more frequent updates which can be a positive.
 
Old 04-01-2014, 01:46 PM   #13
MatthewLM
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I'm testing Debian Jessie now. It does require a bit of work to set things up. Does anyone know if it's possible to get compiz working properly with it and does anyone think compiz will be supported again in the future? I don't think it's in any of the debian repos as well as in LMDE.
 
Old 04-01-2014, 01:51 PM   #14
jdkaye
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Please don't hijack threads. You should have asked this question by starting a new thread. In any event is this the compiz you're looking for?
Code:
~$ aptitude search compiz
p   compiz-fusion-bcop                        - Compiz Fusion option code generator
jdk
 
Old 04-01-2014, 01:58 PM   #15
snowpine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLM View Post
I'm testing Debian Jessie now. It does require a bit of work to set things up. Does anyone know if it's possible to get compiz working properly with it and does anyone think compiz will be supported again in the future? I don't think it's in any of the debian repos as well as in LMDE.
https://answers.launchpad.net/compiz/+question/235670

I recommend to familiarize yourself with actively-supported desktop environments such as: Gnome, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, Mate, etc.
 
  


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