Installation is a problem I have come across time and again and new and non-guru users would surely benefit from learning about this. Most of us like to download the source and compile it specifically for our machine (this is evident from the dlds on sourceforge). New users often prefer RPMs. This is the reason:-

Generally the given rules are:

./configure
make
make install

are desperately insufficient as this assumes, to the mercy of the user, that they already know a lot of other things.

As an example, installing Firefox. Most users here (I am guessing) are using Linux at home and are therefore essentially all root if they want to be. Most will log in as a user and access root when they need to from time to time. I am not assuming too much here as this is how most new distro's install by default.

Firefox is a global application and it would be nice to make the install benefit everyone (root, user1, user2 etc). Most will be using a window system such as KDE or Gnome. The aim of the install from this perspective, is to:

-Install the browser in the right place! (it is an important file and surely doesn't belong in /home/)
-Probably make it the default web-browser
-Add shortcuts on the desktop and/or the taskbar and K menu.
-Make sure the short-cuts have pretty icons (as firefox comes with them and not leave a script link on the desktop)
-Delete all the dead files

Firefox is very easy to do all of this with but serves as a good example for other programs such as installing utilities and other handy apps. The problems are global. I think guru's take this for granted as they usually haven't been inflicted by M$ and often don't 'get' the thinking.

A M$ install will add icons in all the right places (too many sometimes) and install in Program Files. If you are a tidy M$ user you might install mIRC in C:/Program Files/Internet/mIRC/ and your firefox in /Internet/Firefox/.

The reason I see installation as a problem, beyond what I have listed above, is that often, installs do not leave links to files and can sit dormant on the system forever. Also, an install may leave links but under the root menu and not user or vice-versa depending on how you install. I apologise to the hard-core console Linux user, but I do believe the community aim is to make the whole experience more accessible on and for the desktop user. After all, KDE is at 3.2!

Can a patient guru consider this and offer a guide please? Perhaps all from shell if preferable.

To highlight my main points:

Install as $user or #root?
Correct places to put important apps for global system install like browsers, media players, monitoring utilities etc?
Creating global links to the fresh file
Pretty Pictures
Remove dud files.

I do understand the complexity of things like pretty icons as some installs have them by default and some don't and also what files to remove or not. Usually, after compiling and 'make install' the original directory can be deleted as it installed somewhere else. The global and important issues are $ or#, where to put things and creating shortcuts/links, and possibly setting the new app as default.

I would be greatful for any good practices a guru would be willing to share as I am sure others would also. After all, conventions are good practice. With no 'C:/Program Files/', 'make install' is a blinder to many!

I'm not sure that is the case. I don't know about your distro, but in the distro I use (slackware) if I don't use the package manager, it makes it very hard to downgrade or to remove old files when you upgrade. Sure, I can compile, make a package, and THEN run it through the package manager, but for software where a generic compile will do, why bother? I just grab a package from a trusted source, and go on to bigger and better things.

Regarding your other points, yeah, I understand what you're saying. For the total newbie, a hand-holding install would be a good thing. But I can only hope that there will always be distros which allow total control over the install, without all those MicroSoftie assumptions.

But if the install is really supposed to be idiot proof, it should not have to compile. What if you don't have the required version of the compiler? A newbie-centric install should not compile, it should come as a package, already compiled.

The 'right place' is not automatically a globallly accessible location. Most users will want a global install of a browser. But if, for some reason, you don't trust the browser, you'll want it to be installed in a user's space. What if you don't want your users to USE firefox? What if you're doing regression testing and you need five copies of Mozilla, and two of Firefox, Konqueror and Opera. Should the last one you installed become the default?

What if I don't want EVERY use to get those links? My girlfriend has enought trouble with Linux as it is, without new links and menu selections popping up every time I add something to the system.

Sure, all of my above examples could be solved by asking questions during the install. But the way I see it, I answer those questions NOW by the way I install it.

But to allow both the flexibility wanted by power users, and the hand-holding newbie way, I think those need to be done using package managers, like the way it is done now. What is needed is for software suppliers or distributions to create better package managers and better packages.

Installation is a very important subject. It is one of the trickiest things for most people to master. I started this thread when I was quite frustrated with installs myself. However I have learnt much since then. I wanted to say what I have learnt.

This will vary depending on your distro. I use both MDK and FC3 as my main distros, although I have tried most flavours over the years. I highly recommend anyone who wants to start to try Fedora as it is exceptional, or even the newer Mandrake 10.1/2.

For Fedora users, the command line installed is yum. Open a console, type yum --install PACKAGE and 9 times out of ten you get what you want. The down side is yum doesn't install the dependencies and for unusual programs, you have to add .repo files telling yum where to look for packages.

Yum is very much like urpmi in Mandrake.

The good news it that a standard install of FC3 will install the more diversive installer apt-get without any headaches. You can get it here.

apt is very good at finding programs. My personal recommendation under the default install is to open a terminal and type

# apt-get --install synaptic (Yes as root of course!)

Synaptic is the most rewarding method of installing apps that I have yet to find. It has an eye candy GUI and will install a complete application with dependencies in seconds. Some of the better and most complicated installs are done automatically. Try installing VideoLAN manually or MPlayer. Synaptic makes this blissfully simple. A long explanation but a simple guide.

Step 1 - get apt
Step 2 - # apt-get --install synaptic
Step 3 - Run Synaptic from the K-Menu
Step 4 - Install to your hearts content.

Brief in detail but hope this helps. I can now stream 1080i HD DivX media from my Linux PC to my xbox using VideoLAN flawlessly. There are many good distros.. go with the one that works for you. I hope this helps anyone who is struggling with the array of installation variations!