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Old 10-05-2003, 01:10 PM   #16
quatsch
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well, some of the fonts that come with linux are ugly - nothing you can do about it - and if some of your applications are set to use them, you'll see ugly stuff. See if it helps to change the font settings for gaim etc. Where are the fonts ugly in gaim? The menus or the things inside the chat window?
 
Old 10-05-2003, 02:07 PM   #17
sheldon
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I tried changing it.. But the effort was futile!.. No big differences.. Both fonts.. menu as well as inside chat window..

Ugly fonts comaprable to windows only!.. I can still read it .. but I don't like it..
The point is the same gaim application ( windows version ) provides much better fonts by default!. And I think the default fonts are same in Linux and windows..

So why is this difference?
 
Old 10-05-2003, 03:12 PM   #18
quatsch
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rendring true type fonts is black magic, that's why exactly the same fonts look a bit differently even between different versions of windows. See if changing the system wide settings for fonts in KDE control center makes a difference.

another thing that could make a difference is locale. In a terminal do
locale
If this gives an output with lots of things with .UTF-8 endings, disabling utf8 can make a difference. concretely, do
locale >~/.i18n
then edit the ~/.i18n by removing all .UTF8 endings. Log out and in again.
 
Old 10-05-2003, 05:18 PM   #19
pesho_p
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Quote:
Originally posted by sheldon
I tried changing it.. But the effort was futile!.. No big differences.. Both fonts.. menu as well as inside chat window..

Ugly fonts comaprable to windows only!.. I can still read it .. but I don't like it..
The point is the same gaim application ( windows version ) provides much better fonts by default!. And I think the default fonts are same in Linux and windows..

So why is this difference?
Please take a look here: http://www.geocities.com/pesho_pv/Linux.html (1-st and 3-rd shots from top to bottom). Is this what you're looking for?
For comparison of different font renderings: http://www.geocities.com/pesho_pv/By...to-hinter.html. As you can see, in the case with enabled byte-code interpreter and disabled anti-aliasing for fonts smaller than, say, 14-16 pt rendering quality is very similar to Windows.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 12:27 AM   #20
sheldon
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Quatsch,

I will try this once I am back to home. Will Keep you posted.

pesho_p,

I have gone through your page. It looks good even though I can't make out the quality of the fonts there. As I have mentioned earlier I was able to get good fonts for my desktop and browsers after enabling bytecode intepreter for freetype. Only certain applications provides bad fonts.
Some questions to you..
i) Are you able to get good fonts for all your applications?

ii) Do you have an English version of this document?. I was not able to read it!

iii) Your desktop looks excellent!. Could you tell how did you achive this?..
 
Old 10-06-2003, 01:49 PM   #21
sheldon
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Hi Quatsch,

This is what I have done..

On command prompt typed
>locale
Produced the following results

LANG=en_US
LC_CTYPE=en_US
LC_NUMERIC=en_US
LC_TIME=en_US
LC_COLLATE=en_US
LC_MONETARY=en_US
LC_MESSAGES=en_US
LC_PAPER=en_US
LC_NAME=en_US
LC_ADDRESS=en_US
LC_TELEPHONE=en_US
LC_MEASUREMENT=en_US
LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_US
LC_ALL=

This doesn't contain any UTF ending statements. But 'locale -a' produced lot of stuff with
UTF8 endings but in a slightly different format. Few lines are given below. Redirected this into
the file as u mentioned. Removed all the UTF endings.Logged out and logged in again. As expected
when I opened the konsole got error saying that these commands not found since the assignment
part is gone.

C
CP1251
en
en_AU
en_AU.ISO-8859-1
en_AU.UTF-8

Any other thoughts to improve the font quality for appplications like gaim?
 
Old 10-06-2003, 02:34 PM   #22
quatsch
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not really. how did you install gaim? sometimes, just taking an rpm from mandrake or texstar gives better results than compiling from source and the like.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:21 PM   #23
pesho_p
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OK, let's make some important details crystal clear: Could you provide screenshot of your desktop with, say, Konqueror & Mozilla (both showing Slachdot.org), KDE's Control Center (showing your fonts settings (type, size, anti-aliasing and so on)) and Gaim (of course; they may overlap each other, however make sure that Control Center and Gaim are on top somehow). This way it will be much more easier (for me at least) to figure out the current situation with your fonts.

In the mean time: Gaim is GTK+ based application thus any modification that you make to your fonts trough Control Center (or whatever it's called - I don't have Linux right now) in KDE will have absolutely no effect. Try to change your fonts settings in GNOME via Font Preferences applet and see what will happen.
You've said that byte-code interpreter (already) is enabled on your system. Are you 100% percent sure? Did you compile it by hand or it is some pre-built package? To compile it by hand do the following:

1. Remove any instance of FreeType currently installed on your system. On Slackware system it will be something like: removepkg freetype2-2.1.5-i486-1.tgz, but I'm not famillar with RPM based distributions (it will be something like: rpm –some_options_that_I_don't_know package_name_here.rpm however).
2. Download current non-beta FreeType build from freetype.org (2.1.5 will do the job): wget -c http://path_to_some_server_near_you/...-2.1.5.tar.bz2
3. Unpack: tar jxvf freetype-2.1.5.tar.bz2
4. Open include/freetype/config/ftoption.h, find "/* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */ " and modify it to look like "#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER".
5. Compile and install: ./configure --prefix=/usr (/usr/X11R6 on Slackware otherwise GNOME will cease to work), followed by: make install (or if you know some better way based on RPM or something...)
6. Disable anti-aliasing for fonts smaller than 14-16 pt. To do so, edit /etc/fonts/fonts.conf by adding following lines (you can replace 14 with 15, 16...):
Code:
<!-- Disable antialiasing for fonts less than 14 points --> 

<match target="pattern"> 
    <test qual="any" name="size" compare="less"> 
        <double>14</double> 
    </test> 
    <edit name="antialias" mode="assign"> 
        false 
    </edit> 
</match>
after </config> and before </fontconfig> tags.

Now your fonts should look just like in Windows - small fonts will be crisp and sharp, big ones will be anti-aliased (first screenshot from my previous post).

As for my desktop: I don't know what you mean with "looks excellent" thus I'm unable to give you advice. It's pretty normal desktop - Dropline GNOME 2.2.x with Bluecurve theme on the first 3 shots and KDE 3.1.0 with Aqua theme on last 3 ones. Nothing extraordinary. However tell me exactly what did you like and maybe I'll be able to tell you more details.
 
Old 10-07-2003, 04:51 AM   #24
pesho_p
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Just a few more suggestions:

1. If you type: $ENV | grep GTK did you see something like GDK_USE_XFT=1? If not, then edit your default bash profile and put: export GDK_USE_XFT=1 inside.
2. Create (if it doesn't exist already) one file .gtkrc-2.0 in your $HOME directory and then put: gtk-font-name="Arial 10" (or whatever font/size combo that you prefer) no top of it.
3. Maybe there is something more, but without screenshot is hard to tell.
 
Old 10-07-2003, 05:21 AM   #25
sheldon
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Hi pesho_p

Thanks for your reply.. I will send you the screen shots and other details that you have asked once I am back to home.

I will try changing the font preferences in Gnome also. I have tried it only in KDE till now. This could be the reason why Gaim and similar applcation still provides bad fonts. Thanks for the input.

Regarding the true type font I am sure about that. I did exactly whatever you have mentioned. Initially I had installed the truetype enabled freetype librabry, with out uninstalling the old one, in usr/local/lib. So I had problems with that. Later on I removed all the libfreetype.so and .a libraries from /usr/lib and installed the new one in /usr/lib. After that the font quality for my desktop and browsers got far better. But not for all applications.
This is what I am trying to stress. The same application, for example gaim, with the same font settings gives much better quality in Windows than in Linux as I mentioned earlier. Why?

I am using freetype version 2.1.4. Hope it won't make much difference.

Finally about your desktop.
Excellent may be bit exaggeration!. When I went home mine is also almost looks same!. Basically I was comparing my KDE icons with your Gnome. I will try Gnome with the theme that you have mentioned. Couple of questions though..

In the third one I can see some graphs (p lots )as part of the background. What is that?

In the last one I do see a desktop inside a desktop. The inner one looks good!. Is it Linux desktop?

By the way I am using Mandrake 9.1...
 
Old 10-07-2003, 06:31 AM   #26
pesho_p
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Quote:
This is what I am trying to stress. The same application, for example gaim, with the same font settings gives much better quality in Windows than in Linux as I mentioned earlier. Why?
It's really up to you how your fonts will look like on a Linux machine - http://www.geocities.com/pesho_pv/By...to-hinter.html:

1. Windows 2000 (for comparison).
2. GNOME 2.2.1 and FreeType 2.1.4 byte-code interpreter is enabled (by default byte-code is disabled because of various patent issues with Apple) and anti-aliasing for fonts smaller than 14 pt is disabled. It is directly comparable to Windows in terms of quality don't you think so? If you configure FreeType correctly then quality on both Linux and Windows will be comparable (I don't have Linux anymore thus I'm unable to show you, but I'm 100% sure).
3. Same as above but without disabled anti-aliasing, i.e. without:
Code:
<!-- Disable antialiasing for fonts less than 14 points --> 

<match target="pattern"> 
    <test qual="any" name="size" compare="less"> 
        <double>14</double> 
    </test> 
    <edit name="antialias" mode="assign"> 
        false 
    </edit> 
</match>
in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf. As you can see fonts are unnecessarily hinted which makes them kinda blurry.
4. Default behavior of FreeType: plain auto-hinter - good for LCD but awful for CRT (for me at least, but it's really a matter of personal taste).

Quote:
Basically I was comparing my KDE icons with your Gnome. I will try Gnome with the theme that you have mentioned.
It's called Freecurve/Wonderland for other distributions (only RedHat can call it Bluecurve). Download sources form, say: http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/se...edhat-artwork, compile and install. There are corresponding window/application decorations, icon themes, etc. for both KDE and GNOME inside.

Quote:
In the third one I can see some graphs (p lots )as part of the background. What is that?

In the last one I do see a desktop inside a desktop. The inner one looks good!. Is it Linux desktop?
1. This is GKrellM (+ lm_sensors for monitoring CPUs temperature, fans rotations and voltages) with so-called "invisible" skin. For more information about GKrellM: http://www.gkrellm.net/. For more information about lm_sensors: http://secure.netroedge.com/~lm78/.
2. This is Basilisk II (emulator, just like VMWare shown on the 3-rd screenshot, but for 680x0 CPUs) running Macintosh OS 8.1. You can download Basilisk II from here: http://www.uni-mainz.de/~bauec002/B2Main.html and MacOS 7.5.3 (+ updates to 7.5.5) is freely available from Apple: http://download.info.apple.com/Apple...Version_7.5.3/.

Hope that helps somehow.
 
Old 10-08-2003, 01:25 AM   #27
sheldon
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Some more updates..

>env | grep GTK produced
GDK_USE_XFT=1
So no problem with that.

Also I edited this file '.gtkrc-2.0' to add "Tahoma 10" . This changed the window fonts of the gaim , galeon etc. in KDE also!. Thanks.. This is something which I was looking for.. I don't know whether this is going to change the fonts in the chat window also. I haven't checked that yet.
More over changing the global font settings in the Gnome also made the differences. But I use KDE.

Yeah, after installing true type fonts I think the quality is simliar to windows. But my issue was with certain applications and that is also getting sorted out now. Thanks!.

One more question . Do you now how to change the font settings of FireBird window Menus?. I tried editing the userChrome.css as mentioned in the mozilla website. But that is changing the fonts of Mozilla only and not Firebird.

Then I tried installing the lm_sensors. Went to through the scary INSTALL file. Looks like I need to have the Kernel source code?. Is that correct?. I want to install it as seperate modules not as kernel patch. What is your suggestion?
 
Old 10-08-2003, 08:45 AM   #28
pesho_p
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Quote:
One more question . Do you now how to change the font settings of FireBird window Menus?. I tried editing the userChrome.css as mentioned in the mozilla website. But that is changing the fonts of Mozilla only and not Firebird.
I tried this in the past however with the exactly same result - it simply doesn't work. I can speak for Phoenix 0.5 tough, maybe in Firebird (ex-Phoenix) 0.7 it will work. Who knows...
Better ask your question here: http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php?c=4. This is forum specially devoted to Firebird so chances are someone will know for sure does it work and in case it does - how.

Quote:
Then I tried installing the lm_sensors. Went to through the scary INSTALL file. Looks like I need to have the Kernel source code?. Is that correct?. I want to install it as seperate modules not as kernel patch. What is your suggestion?
From the "scary" INSTALL file:
Quote:
Let's say you want to use the lm_sensors modules with the kernel 2.1.12 you
are running now. What you need, is the original tree in which you
compiled that 2.1.12 kernel.
A freshly unpacked 2.1.12 kernel will not
cut it, because `make *config dep' creates some files that are needed.
And even then, you will run into trouble, because you may not have
selected the exact same configuration variables. Plain advise: if you
do not have your original kernel tree anymore, recompile your kernel
first.
So, yes, you'll need the kernel source code and not only unpacked 'vanilla' tree but tree used to build your currently running kernel. On Slackware I was forced to compile my own kernel one way or another, because there is not pre-built SMP kernel available (my motherboard is Abit BP6 + 2 x Celeron 500 MHz), so this never was a real problem for me.
However from this page: http://linux.rarosk.net/mandrake91/i...p?go=65&rpm=40 I see that there is already package for lm_sensors available for your Mandrake 9.1 and it is supposed to be on the 3-rd CD:
Quote:
MANDRAKE v9.1 - RPM package info

CD: 3
lm_sensors-2.7.0-2mdk.i586.rpm
Name : lm_sensors Relocations: (not relocateable)
Version : 2.7.0 Vendor: MandrakeSoft
Release : 2mdk Build Date: Pi 14. marec 2003, 11:20:44 UTC
Install date: (not installed) Build Host: bi.mandrakesoft.com
Group : System/Kernel and hardware Source RPM: lm_sensors-2.7.0-2mdk.src.rpm
Size : 1042106 License: GPL
Packager : Juan Quintela <quintela@mandrakesoft.com>
URL : http://www.lm-sensors.nu/
Summary : Utilities for lm_sensors
Description :
This package contains a collection of user space tools for general SMBus
access and hardware monitoring. SMBus, also known as System Management Bus,
is a protocol for communicating through a I2C ('I squared C') bus. Many modern
mainboards have a System Management Bus. There are a lot of devices which can
be connected to a SMBus; the most notable are modern memory chips with EEPROM
memories and chips for hardware monitoring.

Most modern mainboards incorporate some form of hardware monitoring chips.
These chips read things like chip temperatures, fan rotation speeds and
voltage levels. There are quite a few different chips which can be used
by mainboard builders for approximately the same results.
 
Old 10-08-2003, 09:22 AM   #29
sheldon
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Thanks man.. You seems to know the solution for all of my problems!.
Greatly appreciate your help.

I will keep you posted about lm_sensors and Fonts in Firebird. Currently I am looking at the Firbird Forums.
I may need your help again-):
 
Old 10-08-2003, 05:13 PM   #30
pesho_p
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I found this piece of code again - http://flii.us/myworks/phoenix/pages/chrome.html:
Quote:
userChrome.css

The userChrome.css file (~/.phoenix/[profile-name]/[#s].slt/chrome) is mainly used to customize the look of FireBird and is probably the most used configuration file. Here are a few examples of what you can do with userChrome:

- hide menu items
- change the font of menu items
- make my Bookmarks Toolbar Folder have icons only
- change the size of my tabs
- skin my tabs
- skin the rest of my browser
- skin the status bar

Code:
/* change the font size and type of menu items */
      menubar > menu {
        font-size: 10px !important;
        font-family: Comic Sans MS, sans-serif !important;
        font-weight: bold !important;
        }
It may, or may not, work (as afar as I can recall it doesn't on Phoenix 0.5 (Linux version with support for Xft and GTK+)), however you can try at least, it won't hurt. Maybe in your new version it will work as expected (read /.phoenix as /.firebird above tough ).
 
  


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