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Old 11-05-2003, 05:15 PM   #16
linksocc
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Distribution: Mandrake 9.0 1st/9.1 2nd/Gentoo 1.4 now
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The most cutting edge linux flavor is Gentoo (My favorite BTW) and the most easy to update.
You should try gentoo, you'll never look back to other distro
 
Old 11-05-2003, 05:15 PM   #17
Nimoy
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The more I read the more Debian tempts me - However I cringe at the fact of having to jump onto/into another distro.

And on the note of freeloaders I think it is funny that SCO actually saved me a few $$$ by doing what they have done as I've delayed purchasing a license from RedHat so I could use RH in the saftety of my home with full support etc. as a replacement for my Windooze desktop which was cracked after a zillion attempts from the outside via mails and other devious methods...

I was about to buy me a license but waited in order to get a clear picture of the whole mess and then RedHat abandons their product - lol life sure is strange at times...

But I might just do a backup of my home and give Debian a try
 
Old 11-05-2003, 06:12 PM   #18
paradoxdruid
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If you want Debian, install it via Knoppix http://www.knoppix.net . It will autodetect a WHOLE lot, configure and install Debian testing/unstable... It's worked on desktops and Laptops for me, without any problems (Sony VAIO wireless card not recognized initially, but that's a known problem with a downloadable fix).

Debian is great.
 
Old 11-05-2003, 08:19 PM   #19
jjohnston62
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personally, debian nor mandrake don't get considered by some of us because we have to worry about support for "corporate" software. That's why the lean towards RedHat and Suse. Both are more heavily supported in the environments in which I'm going to run (mostly) IBM software.

Jon J.
 
Old 11-05-2003, 09:12 PM   #20
Scruff
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Re: Choosing a Red Hat Replacement now that they've bailed on us... add your info plz

Quote:
Originally posted by versaulis
Slackware -- WWWWWOOOOWWWWW! I love it! I was trying it out even when I didn't know Red Hate was going to bail. It's support for RPM and DEB packages seem to be zero (at least to start), which makes me mad. It's updater isn't very impressive. I can't get the stuff I want from it... like rezound and k3b. -- also, the slackware-live.org scripts are REALLY cool!
---- Update --> http://www.linuxpackages.net is a GREAT website for Slackware software! They have all kinds of good stuff you can download and install on the fly!
Ok. For Slackware (an awesome distro for sure) you have Swaret for an almost effortless update utility. Check it out, you won't be dissapointed. I have had to install many a lib that was only availiable as an RPM. For that Slackware includes rpm2tgz. So far, it has never failed me. It's used like this: # rpm2tgz filename.rpm. Then you have a tgz file which can be installed with # installpkg filename.tgz. Also, learn to compile from source especially if you go with Slack. It runs real close to true Unix and makes compiling software from source much smoother than you have ever seen on RedHat and it is then optimized for your specific hardware, etc.

I can understand RedHat users aggravation for their decision to focus on the enterprise market, but really it should work out well for Linux as a whole in the end. RedHat is a powerful company that was losing money in the desktop segment. If they focus ALL of their power in the market that they ARE successful in, they are sure to gain a much greater share. That will in turn, have more an more businesses using Linux, causing software and hardware companies to port their software to linux, and include linux drivers for hardware. I know I would love to see Adobe products make it to linux without using some damn windows emulator to run them. Same with games. And I KNOW we could all use better hardware support. Just do a quick search on something like 'nvidia driver install' here at LQ and see how many problems people have installing hardware

Good luck on your quest for a new distro all!

Last edited by Scruff; 11-05-2003 at 09:30 PM.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 10:18 AM   #21
GameboyHippo
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Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Bible Belt USA
Distribution: Debian
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I've heard GenToo (sp?) mentioned a lot lately. It would make me nervous to make the switch... I think Debian Sid is unstable enough for me and really wouldn't want to go farther.

As for the gentleman (or gentleladie) who refered to those of us who don't want to pay for an OS a freeloader, I feel that no one should have to pay for a program that would allow them to run programs. Has anyone bought a GameboyAdvance and had to buy extra software so they could play games they purchaced? Has anyone bought an X-Box and had to pay extra for an OS before they could play their games? So why should it be different for a PC?

I feel the world would be more benifited if we all wrote programs to help the good of each other and not so that we could get rich. If we all that then we will improve the lives of each other. For example, a kid living in the slums is given a 386. Should the kid not have the FREEDOM or RIGHT to learn to code because his parents are POOR? Because his parents can't spend their living purchasing MS product after MS product? Because it costs $1200 for a C compiler!?!? I'll admit that I learned to code illegaly (after all its illegal for poor people to learn), but that was before I discoverd the joy of Linux and GNU. Now I can learn legally and teach poor children how to code. And that's probably why I chose Debian as my dist. It's the only one that is truely Free!
 
Old 11-06-2003, 11:37 AM   #22
Nu-Bee
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Quote:
Originally posted by lawsonrc
Shake your head all you want, but I'm shaking my head at your comments.
Let's see how your reply measures up....



Quote:
Originally posted by lawsonrc
Well, Nu-Bee, you are entitled to your opinion, but those of us above that have mentioned Mandrake do not have any *misconceptions* as you accuse us of having.
Really?...how about that many if not most Red Hat users are totally ignorant of Mandrake Update and URPMI.

And this which recently came down the pike on the Mandrake Usenet:

Quote:
>>>>How will Redhat's abandoning of the desktop type distro affect Mandrake,
>>>>given that Mandrake typically starts with a Redhat distro and then
>>>>augments it?
...as if Mandrake wasn't a distro in its own right, but needed to wait for Red Hat to issue a version so they could rip it off and screw with it.

...it's been a long time since 1998 when Mandrake began; taking for it's beginning the newly released Red Hat 5.1...to build upon.

Did Red Hat steal its idea from Linus Torvalds...or from UNIX?

I can't tell you how many times I have heard similar BS coming from many Red Hat users & others.

I constantly hear that Mandrake doesn't have an updater like Red Hat does.

...bullsheize!

I am forever hearing the BS that Mandrake users go through "dependency hell" because they don't have an easy installer like Apt-Get or Yast....

...bullsheize!

It is called URPMI and works fine.

Quote:
One of the most important Mandrake-specific tools is, without a doubt, urpmi, which allows for better and easier package management in your Mandrake box. If you master the use of urpmi, you will never again suffer the dependancy hell that many inexperienced users complain about. For instance, urpmi sylpheed will install the Sylpheed mail client, and all the required libraries.

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/UsingUrpmi
And it is very easy to configure here:


Easy URPMI

Quote:
All the distros mentioned thus far have their strengths and weaknesses, all depending on one's computer hardware.
Yes, and Mandrake has traditionally been on the cutting edge...not satisfied with just old tried & true hardware...and for the user in the desktop arean, not catering to the Enterprise community.

I figured out a long time ago that Red Hat was just tolerating the desktop user while they worked their way into the Enterprise Community.

I am not saying that is a bad thing, I am just saying that most Red Hat people never picked up on that and while they were condemning others like Mandrake for not being a "professional" distro...they were being used as Beta Testers for Red Hat's dream.

At least Mandrake users know where they stand...

Quote:
MandrakeSoft's strategy is based on promoting Linux for users, from beginners to experts, from individuals to corporate users, by creating a comprehensive and customizable range of services developed around its Linux product line.

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/about
Quote:
And, yes, many Mandrake users have had to tolerate many of its bugs and exhaustive updates because they rush their new version out prematurely, which have been posted on forums such as www.mandrakeusers.org and the Mandrake forum at www.linuxiso.org.
You mean rather than being on the cutting edge where bugs can be found...and staying two steps behind like Red Hat has traditionally done.

NTFS Support...

XMMS.....and a lot of other stuff.

Friend, the cutting edge is full of bugs...you might be happy with Lindows.

Quote:
Also, it is immature of you to attack Red Hat and SUSE as M$ clones just because people are willing to pay for a distro. After all, Windows XP (not the upgrade) costs $299.00 for Pro and $199.00 for Home. I find that paying $39.95 for either Red Hat 8.0 or for SUSE 9.0 much more inexpensive and well worth it.
No, I am calling them that because they are both well known to cater to the Enterprise Community and virtually ignore the Linux Desktop market...except as it fits into their Enterprise Business plans.

Novell isn't exactly well known for how it treats the small guy.

Quote:
I am assuming (and maybe unfairly) that all of your versions have been downloaded free versions that you haven't paid for. That's okay, but none of the distros can survive if everyone is a *freeloader*. Do you support Mandrake by being a member of its Mandrake Club? Or does that also make Mandrake an "M$ clone"?
Would you like to see a scan of my CDs or boxed set?...v. 7.2

And, I'll be getting 9.2 Powerpack as soon as the dust settles.

Since I am disabled -WITHOUT- a disability income, it might be a while before I am able to join the Mandrake Club.

While we are on this subject let me point out something that has obviously escaped you...and virtually everyone else. Before I continue, let me say this: Mandrake people -KNOW- that they are on the cutting edge, -AND- that means "bugs", and sometimes even broken hardware.

We have heard an awful lot about the LG CDROM issue.

Let me make something crystal clear...

When Mandrake opens up their ISOs to the general public...THERE WILL BE NO LG CDROM DRIVE ISSUE.

That is because the Mandrake Community of dedicated users found it first.

I would guess that the number of non-Mandrake Club people who got bit by LG's CHEAPNESS is very near to zero...while the vast majority of people who (unfortunately) found this out are dedicated Mandrake Users.

The bad guy in this is the LG CDROM manufacurer...it is -NOT- Mandrake.

Mandrake has been for -THE DESKTOP MARKET- from day one.
Red Hat has been for -THE ENTERPRISE SOLUTION- from day one.

...this is why I bought Mandrake (which I had never heard of before) rather than Red Hat...which I had.

...where a man's heart is, there his mind will follow.

...maybe you've heard that before?...maybe not.

Red Hat just proved it again.

And...

Quote:
What I'm *really* waiting for is next April when the distros are using kernel 2.6 and a later version of KDE and possibly a later version of Gnome.
That kernel is available to Mandrake users now in 9.2 to experiment with if they feel up to it. All you have to do is use our package manger to install the source.

Last edited by Nu-Bee; 11-06-2003 at 11:58 AM.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 11:51 AM   #23
Lostman
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Wow. I paid for SuSu Professional 8.2 because it was the only one there. Am I using it? Nope.

If I had the money I'd join Mandrake Club. But I don't, so when I do I will.


But back on to the point of the thread, why aren't you guys talking about Fedora? It's still Red Hat, I'm hearing from different places that an upgrade is possible. You just don't get the support that you used to get. But there are many of us that arn't in Mandrake club or have Red Hat support that get along just fine.

They have the ISO's on they're site for d/l. Why not check it out and at least see if it will work for what your doing?


And Mandrake rocks!
 
Old 11-06-2003, 12:08 PM   #24
Nu-Bee
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lostman
And Mandrake rocks!
Yes it does!...not like some lame "two steps behind" distro whose heart is for the Enterprise market...afraid even to give its users mp3 support for XMMS for fear of how its Enterprise Community might react.

We don't have to label one version "stable" and another one "unstable"...because we are on the cutting edge...and know it comes with bugs to be there.

If it wasn't for Mandrake's desire to make installation easy for the average Windoze User, we'd still be installing linux like LFS and Debian.

Anaconda doesn't hold a candle to the Mandrake Installer....

And, I suspect that before the end of the year we will have a LiveCD (ala Knoppix) to make things even easier.

Knowing Mandrake...I am sure it is going to be a great LiveCD.

...I suspect that it will surpass Knoppix in some important way.

Last edited by Nu-Bee; 11-06-2003 at 12:11 PM.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 12:55 PM   #25
evil_Tak
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Distribution: Debian/unstable
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Quote:
Originally posted by versaulis
I have another question about debian vs. red hat. People tell me KDE runs faster under other distros like debian than it does under red hat. anyone agree?
There's nothing intrinsically faster about debian vs. another distro. That being said, KDE might feel faster under debian than redhat because, during a default install, redhat installs and starts a bunch of services which may or may not be necessary, and each service takes a chunk of the available resources.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 12:57 PM   #26
evil_Tak
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lostman
And Mandrake rocks!
Yep, they rock so hard they went bankrupt.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 02:05 PM   #27
Nu-Bee
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Quote:
Originally posted by evil_Tak
Yep, they rock so hard they went bankrupt.
I'd keep your shoes on if I were you...
 
Old 11-06-2003, 02:13 PM   #28
Pcghost
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I am not going to Fedora initially because it stings me to have paid $65 bucks US for something Redhat decided to cancel 6 months later. My RHN account is useless. Redhat doesn't care about Desktop Linux, and I can respect that, but that also means I will find a distro that does. I just feel that RH cheated me, that's all. They still make a bad*ss distro, don't get me wrong.
 
Old 11-06-2003, 05:56 PM   #29
Scruff
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Quote:
Originally posted by evil_Tak
There's nothing intrinsically faster about debian vs. another distro. That being said, KDE might feel faster under debian than redhat because, during a default install, redhat installs and starts a bunch of services which may or may not be necessary, and each service takes a chunk of the available resources.
Wouldn't that make Debian a faster distro??? I know my Slack setup is like 40% faster than my old Mandrake 9.1 install). Right out of the gate these distro's are faster (making them....faster) because as you said, the extra services, but also the kernel configuration, software bloat, etc. I don't have anything against any distro, but it's my personal opinion that Mandrake, SuSe, and RedHat are bloated and slow. This is due to creating a distro that is suitable out of the box for a very large audience, from the desktop, to the enterprise, to the complete newbie to the seasoned pro. This is the same thing microsoft does with windows each version. Again, this isn't a bad thing. There needs to be distros like this for linux to get ahead and attract new users and a appeal to a more diverse crowd, but these distro's are in fact -slower- than say Debian, or Slackware. With a lot of work, they can probably become just as fast. But why bother when you can just start with the basics and add only what you need?

Tons of computer users don't make speed their primary concern anyway. It's only us obsessive compulsives that try to sqeeze every ounce of performance out of a PC that we can. Look at my hardware specs. I still eliminate any extra crap, compile an optimized kernel, run a minimal WM (Fluxbox) and constantly benchmark every aspect of my comp to see if I gained anything Right now, I boot into a nice looking Flux desktop using a total of 60mb's of ram

Still, the Mandrake/Suse approach is awesome. It is very cool to have distro's availiable that are modern and where generally everything works when you load them up.

Last edited by Scruff; 11-06-2003 at 06:10 PM.
 
  


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