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Old 10-12-2003, 09:54 PM   #61
RolledOat
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Quote:
Originally posted by oopicmaster
Or even business computing desktops. Unix has been for the most part, and still is, a server OS. [/B]
Lurking till now, not worth it, but don't spout what you don't know about. 45,000, yes,
45,000! HP and Solaris DESKTOPS in my company. We are a PURE Unix company, with the
ONLY Windows I see being on the Managers computers. Wherever SECURITY and
RELIABILITY matters, in the telecom world, no one I interface with uses Windows on the
desktop or ANYTHING except a dumb terminal to the UNIX/Proprietary code running, in my
personal expertise, wireless networks. Read: I am talking mission critical, 99.999 uptime MANDATED uptime, wireless and telecom networks.

I KNOW my current company is not unique. When at Nortel, 100% of all engineers, me included used HP-UX. So what percentage of the WORLDS companies are/create mission critical Telecom products/services. All the customers I work with are UNIX guru's that put my limited knowledge to shame. I just use it, they WRITE IT. Bet they aren't getting that reading Unix manuals on their Windows desktop.

Anyway, the key question? How long have you been using Windows? How long Linux? If you
want a better version of Windows, Linux is NOT for you. If you want a better OS, Linux is for
you. Dump what you know, or Bill has led you to believe about how a computer works, and
LEARN something new, or go away.

NOTE: BEFORE YOU RANT about home users and how I missed the point, look at the PART of your post that I quoted.

RO
 
Old 10-12-2003, 11:07 PM   #62
m.landoni
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I think that this kind of answers make people unhappy about Linux (i mean the ones about bees and wasps, the first ones).
Unix is overtly an operative system made for programmers by programmers, and so everybody has the right to say "Read The Fantastic Manual".
Linux is an attempt to make a free operative system, and i hope that it is also an attempt to make an operative system for everybody.

As long as computer experts answer this way to desperate people, they cannot hope to see Linux become an operative system for everybody.
Windows is not easier. It is MUCH easier, because to see a DVD you just
1) put a CD in the drive
2) install the software
3) put a DVD
4) watch it.

With Linux:
1) Ask your friend "where is my DVD?" answer "if you don't mount it, you can't see it".
2) Ask your friend "what is mount"? answer "i show you" tatata DVD drrive mounted
3) Find the software on the internet
4) Download it
5) Download the required library
6) Download the library required from the library
7) Phone your friend, he's not home
8) Go on google (you find linuxquestions.org)
9) Go on linuxquestions.org
10) Maybe this post is what you need, but what is RTFM?
11) go on google search for a computer slang dictionary
12) RTFM means "Read The Fucking Manual" and newbie means novice
13) Short cry
14) After all you don't understand very well the posts, even when posted by newbies
15) Wait for your friend two days
16) he comes and at midnight he says "Now you can watch your DVD!!!"
17) Goto "bed".

Last edited by m.landoni; 10-12-2003 at 11:09 PM.
 
Old 10-12-2003, 11:20 PM   #63
megaspaz
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Quote:
Linux is an attempt to make a free operative system, and i hope that it is also an attempt to make an operative system for everybody.
linux was never an attempt to make an operating system for everybody. it, like unix, was made by programmers for programmers.

linus has said time and time again, that he doesn't care or expects linux to ever displace windows. it's just a project that interests him.

and now as far as your dvd analogy goes, you need to download the libraries and a dvd player. my guess is the reason for downloading libraries like libdvdread or libdvdcss is due to 1) legal issues (at least with libdvdcss) and 2) distrobution issues of those libraries. as far as mounting your dvd drive to watch a movie, guess what? you don't have to.

and i think the problem people have here with desperate newbies like the parent poster is that they never ask a question. they just rant about there problems. if you have problems ask the question, provide information like what you've done to try and solve the problem, yada yada yada. leave the desperate whiny linux sucks because i can't figure out how to use garbage at home. yes, you will get your share of RTFM and read the instructions posts, but there will be someone that may give you specifics too.
I myself never give a straight RTFM response unless it's someone like the parent poster ranting and acting like they already know everything and saying linux needs to be changed to suit the poster's needs. linux works fine for a lot of us here as it is, why should it change just because this poster has a problem where he didn't feel like asking for help but instead just ranted like a schmuck?
 
Old 10-12-2003, 11:41 PM   #64
mcleodnine
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Funny. After a brief bout with a client's Wnidows XP rig I found myself asking "...why can XP be more like Linux?"

- Intuitive? Not. User permissions? A horrible kludge, especially since most software vendors still can't wrap their tiny brains around the idea of running a service as the 'least priveledged user possible'. They were close with Windows 2000, but went into la-la land when they built XP. People were mostly used to using Win98/ME and 2000 wasn't much of a leap - a few services instead of userland programs and a comprehensive user/groups schema.

- Install XP and what do you get? A nasty browser and Notepad. I installed Slackware 9.1 this afternoon on a new machine and in under 30 minutes I had almost everything I needed. I copied my directory of tarballs for apps that I usually install myself and had most of those built in under an hour.

"That's all I have to say about that."
-- Forrest Gump
 
Old 10-12-2003, 11:48 PM   #65
m.landoni
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In the beginning this man has been really patient, no matter what he asked later about mv. I don't care about mv. The problem is really that YOU (and a wide amount of other programmers) DON'T RESPECT us, web graphics developers for example, and down down until the farmers and the dogs, that still have the right of having and using a computer: if they are willing to pay bill gates, maybe they need it. And i am not very willing to pay, but i find very strange that you do all this job, and thousands of people round the world work every day to make a small piece of Linux, and nobody tries to make for example a real MANUAL, i am not asking for Einstein to come and ask me "Where do you wanna go today?". I tried to read the manual of KDE, and of my linux, i really don't find what i look for; in DOS i could find something more, in Windows "Reading The Friendly Manual" is really easy... LOTS of people would like to find an answer without being ashamed and getting bullied, and LEARN without studying computer science. I find the Linux world a closed world. Complexity and power are not necessarily bound together... an operative system can be very simple and still very good, as long as it works. Where simple means not deprived of functions; simple means transparent; i write ASP pages, and every three lines i add a comment, should anyone look inside them to change something. I would like you "hardcore" programmers to do the same, at a higher level.

Goodbye
 
Old 10-12-2003, 11:51 PM   #66
megaspaz
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Quote:
Originally posted by m.landoni
In the beginning this man has been really patient, no matter what he asked later about mv. I don't care about mv. The problem is really that YOU (and a wide amount of other programmers) DON'T RESPECT us, web graphics developers for example, and down down until the farmers and the dogs, that still have the right of having and using a computer: if they are willing to pay bill gates, maybe they need it. And i am not very willing to pay, but i find very strange that you do all this job, and thousands of people round the world work every day to make a small piece of Linux, and nobody tries to make for example a real MANUAL, i am not asking for Einstein to come and ask me "Where do you wanna go today?". I tried to read the manual of KDE, and of my linux, i really don't find what i look for; in DOS i could find something more, in Windows "Reading The Friendly Manual" is really easy... LOTS of people would like to find an answer without being ashamed and getting bullied, and LEARN without studying computer science. I find the Linux world a closed world. Complexity and power are not necessarily bound together... an operative system can be very simple and still very good, as long as it works. Where simple means not deprived of functions; simple means transparent; i write ASP pages, and every three lines i add a comment, should anyone look inside them to change something. I would like you "hardcore" programmers to do the same, at a higher level.

Goodbye
have you read the first thread? he asked a question with a bunch of rant bullsh*t thrown in. why the hell should anyone here respect you or anyone else that asks a question in that way? get off your high horse.
 
Old 10-13-2003, 12:43 AM   #67
nullpt
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Hi all,

I just wanna say that I had fun reading this thread...
I think you all understand me. (all? except some dummies that open this kind of thread here instead of opening it on the newbie forum)

gn8 all
 
Old 10-13-2003, 01:53 AM   #68
mcleodnine
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You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Users who ask a striaghtforward question (in the proper forum ) should expect an answer or a pointer to find more help. Those who rant about how 'inferior' Linux is or make threats to go back to Windows are usually treated with as much respect as the poster offered (read: very little).

Try going to a local football game and telling the crowd how much you hate the home team and why you think your team is superior. Tell them they are all a bunch of snobs. Bonus points if you do it in the beer garden
 
Old 10-13-2003, 06:17 AM   #69
fatgod
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Did you try ren?

Quote:
Originally posted by oopicmaster
Its just like the rm and rmdir commands... complete waste... especially when rm -rf can remove a directory too! Its like the designers of Unix had nothing better to do than make up a bunch of extra commands.
Are you crazy? If you actually *want* a featureless OS maybe you should go back to your DOS box

rm, rmdir and rm -rf all do different things and exist for that very reason. Same as mv, cp, and ren.

Did you try ren by the way? You said "There HAS to be a better way." and there is. Why are you still posting in this thread?
 
Old 10-13-2003, 12:50 PM   #70
mossy
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@ m.landoni

1) he was not patient or respectful at all and people still took the time to help him.

2) You have a good point about a Free OS for farmers.

a) I agree everyone should have the opportunity to have a free OS [and they actually do] and I believe they are entitled to it.
b) It CAN be user UNfriendly as far as beginners are concerned. Then again it is not a beginners OS really. Of Course there are distros that ARE more user friendly such as Lindows etc.
c) Linux has become more and more user friendly over time due to demand from newbies and the generosity of programmers.
d) Remember this OS is written by ordinary people who do NOT get paid and is supported by people who do not get paid. Therefore newbies priorities are SOMETIMES not the priorities of the programmers. SOMETIMES they are. There are many projects taking this into consideration and as we can all see they are hugely successful.

3) I have found most manual to be pretty decent
 
Old 10-13-2003, 01:01 PM   #71
Mega Man X
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lol. It has been a long time since I have had so much fun
 
Old 10-13-2003, 01:05 PM   #72
mossy
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heh heh heh
 
Old 10-13-2003, 04:50 PM   #73
xode
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In Mandrake 9.0, in the Konsole terminal under KDE (i.e. the Linux equivalent of MSDOS prompt):

rename gpo cx gpo*.h

...does the same thing as:

ren gpo*.h cx*.h would do in MSDOS prompt.

In general, the format for rename in Konsole is:

rename <Old Subsection (no wildcards)> <New Subsection (no wildcards)> <Filename(s) to change (put wildcards here)>

Hope this helps.

Linux may not have quite the look and feel that Windows has, but it is getting very close. In fact, in some ways it is now better and more powerful, while even easier to use. But, best of all, it is far more stable and it is open source.
 
Old 10-14-2003, 03:28 AM   #74
arunshivanandan
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This has been told some 3-4 times now,in this thread..Infact the entire man page of rename has been posted in this thread.
--arun
 
Old 10-14-2003, 03:37 AM   #75
Crashed_Again
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You know a thread with a title like this is going to get some attention.
 
  


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