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\/4A 10-07-2012 03:26 AM

What is the difference between X,GUI & Desktop
 
Hi,

I'd like to know the difference between X,GUI & Desktop (environment).

The reason I ask is, cos I need to temporarily add GUI into Ubuntu Server 12.04 so I can make a distro of my installation with maybe Remastersys (I believe Ubuntu cannot install without GUI).
I have specific types of users for my "distro" and would expect when someone installs it on his machine, they would thereafter completely remove the GUI and it's related stuff (for the obvious reasons of not having a GUI on a server).

414N 10-07-2012 04:50 AM

Trying to be concise:
  • X is a graphical windows system using a client/server architecture. The server is the one having the graphical resources while the client connects to it (even remotely) to exploit them using the X protocol.
  • GUI is a generic term and an acronym for Graphical User Interface. Many programs interact with the user using some kind of GUI so the user doesn't need to type everything.
  • A desktop environment is a collection of programs/utilities offering some kind of facilities (and eye-candy ;)) to the end user. They're generally built upon a base offering basic graphics functionality such as X.
I don't think you need to deeply know these things while choosing for a backup solution for your server, though... You seem to have chosen Remastersys (why?) for your server distribution, but having to install a complete X environment to just perform a backup and then giving the users the hassle of removing X just after restoring the system on a new machine seems like not a good solution to me. It also seems that Remastersys can be used from the command line, although you'll have to properly fill in a configuration file...

Lone_Wolf 10-07-2012 04:59 AM

first , ubuntu can be installed with out a GUI . I think they call it a minimal installation .

GUI = Graphical User Environment
Typically a GUI is controlled through a mouse and doesn't use a command-line .

X = linux graphics subsystem, used by pratically all GUIs on linux .

On top of X, a Window Manager takes care of how things are drawn, can windows have shades etc.
A Desktop Environment takes care of things like a menu, a system tray, desktop shortcuts, and some applications like a filemanager .


Some WMs : Openbox, i3, blackbox, xnomad

some WM/DE combinations :
Gnome , KDE, XFCE, LXDE, Mate

\/4A 10-07-2012 07:49 AM

Remastersys can be used from the command line, but that's only for making the distro. When I actually come down to installing from the live cd that was made, doesn't work.
I did make a couple of Live CD's of my system and sure enough, trying to select the install option only loaded the system as though running a Live CD. Searched around for some help and came across some interesting stuff which says Ubuntu does not have CLI based install process so it's not Remastersys's fault. Some suggestion was that I install ubiquity-frontend-debconf before installing Remastersys. I even tried this but no luck.
LiveCD works perfectly well.
414N, I'd really appreciate if you could highlight on what you say, "you'll have to properly fill in a configuration file..."

414N 10-07-2012 08:32 AM

Well, that's just what I read on Remastersys website about using it from CLI. :)
Before your last post I thought you needed an X environment only to perform the backup job while, instead, you seem to have already done it via CLI and are now blocked by the installer on the live-CD requiring X to run. I misunderstood that.
If it needs an already installed X server to make the installer work after you've backed up the image, then I think it doesn't suit your backup needs.
I guess you should look into an alternative like Clonezilla live. It's a live-CD/USB/PXE distro to perform partitions/disks backup jobs. After the backup image is created, you can even automate the image recovery process.

\/4A 10-07-2012 02:11 PM

Thanks, 414N.
I've taken a look at clonezilla, but I very much doubt it would work as a distributable distro across a wide range of servers. (I have no idea of the hardware configs it'll be used on) and my end-users are not tech-savvy at all.

There are other long long procedures to make installable distros like Ubuntu Customization Kit but I need something quick and reliable (I'm not saying UCK is not reliable, but I feel I could make some mistakes along the way). http://www.tuxradar.com/content/buil...ution-easy-way

Again, my concern is, if Ubuntu requires a GUI for the install, will UCK work or will it be the same Remastersys story? That's why I thought I'd go the temporary GUI way and then the end user could remove the GUI to avoid it's vulnerabilities, hoping it's a simple command like "sudo apt-get remove --purge"
Again, what is to be removed: X, GUI or Desktop environment, shell, or something else I'm not aware of?

At the moment I'm on http://complete-concrete-concise.com...-install-a-gui
to see if I get some ideas.

I really don't want unnecessary code available to vulnerabilities and downtime.

414N 10-07-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by \/4A (Post 4799605)
I've taken a look at clonezilla, but I very much doubt it would work as a distributable distro across a wide range of servers. (I have no idea of the hardware configs it'll be used on) and my end-users are not tech-savvy at all.

Excuse me but I'm not following you anymore... Are you trying to make a redistributable Ubuntu Server installation which should "just work" across different hardware configs? What is different between these machines?
If the processor architectures are heterogeneous you'll have to supply different images/live CDs to your users, regardless of the tool used to dump them (even Remastersys can't help you there, I presume)...

\/4A 10-07-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 414N (Post 4799623)
Are you trying to make a redistributable Ubuntu Server installation which should "just work" across different hardware configs?

That's right.
Remastersys on their website say,
Quote:

The resulting iso file can be used on any other PC that still meets the original minimum requirements of Ubuntu or Debian. Things like the graphics card and other hardware will be configured and setup automatically and you do not have to use identical hardware.

\/4A 10-09-2012 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 414N (Post 4799623)
If the processor architectures are heterogeneous you'll have to supply different images/live CDs to your users, regardless of the tool used to dump them (even Remastersys can't help you there, I presume)...

aah, I see what you're referring to. I hope to start with the 32-bit PC (x86) and move up from there as demand increases. I believe 64-bit PC's would be able to run the 32-bit PC version?

I wonder if the command "cli" followed by "sudo tasksel" can wok - if I boot the server with the LiveCD that Remastersys made and from the command prompt and then execute them. Problem is, when I do cli from the command prompt, it says it's not installed and I need to install it with "sudo apt-get install mono-runtime".

414N 10-09-2012 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by \/4A (Post 4800949)
aah, I see what you're referring to. I hope to start with the 32-bit PC (x86) and move up from there as demand increases. I believe 64-bit PC's would be able to run the 32-bit PC version?

64 bit PCs are indeed able to run 32 bit software most of the times, but if you're working on a (customized) server installation I presume your clients will want to install your custom distro on some server machines. Servers are machines with loads of RAM that is better exploited with 64 bit OS, although a 32 bit OS using PAE can work too (with some performance penalty).
This, however, is meaningful only in an environment equipped with x86/x86_64 hardware. If the architectures differ, you'll have to prepare a custom solution for them too even to the point of having to recompile the entire distro if the architecture is different from the one directly supported by Ubuntu Linux...
Quote:

Originally Posted by \/4A (Post 4800949)
I wonder if the command "cli" followed by "sudo tasksel" can wok - if I boot the server with the LiveCD that Remastersys made and from the command prompt and then execute them. Problem is, when I do cli from the command prompt, it says it's not installed and I need to install it with "sudo apt-get install mono-runtime".

There's a misunderstanding here.
In my previous post I was referring to CLI as Command Line Interface, i.e. a generic textual prompt and not a specific command.
CLI is also an acronym for Common Language Infrastructure, a core .NET framework component of which mono is an open-source implementation (that's why you got the suggestion to install mono).
As you may have already noticed, I'm not an Ubuntu fan nor expert but I found these suggestions that may be useful to you:
unattended install of Ubuntu and remastersys alternatives.

\/4A 10-09-2012 03:57 PM

Thanks so much, 414N for the info and the really informative links.

As for the CLI command, I got this info from the Ubuntu MinimalCD installation page at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...tion/MinimalCD
so it was just something I was considering.


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