LAMP server setup - Ubuntu vs std Linux?
 

Thanks for taking my question. I have just recently made a commitment to leave the dark side of asp.net and I am eager to jump into LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP). I am prepared to set up this server on a 5 yr old Intel box but also buy a new server to colo locally, the combination of which I will use to both learn and host web based apps for my business. We have a slow down after a big project that is running in asp.net on a virtual server and I need lots of disk space (1/2 Tb or so) and thus it is becoming more economical to buy a physical server. I have discovered that it is quite prohibitive/outrageous to pay for the OS and DB software that I would need to build the server on my own hardware.

I have migrated to MySQL on the current server, but it doesn't work nicely with controls and widgets from the other company whose name shall not be mentioned.

After reading a couple of technical books about PHP, I realize it should work really nicely for my work and I am eager to make the change.

Being fairly overloaded with work to make these changes, I want to facilitate the setup of my LAMP server and while I want to learn Linux, I would like to do that incrementally, rather than as a precursor to the PHP and the nuts and bolts of my projects.

So the basic question is this - Is there anything wrong with going with Ubuntu LAMP server vs straight Linux LAMP server? My thinking was that I would have a GUI to speed up my progress with the setup of the system. As a production server would Ubuntu work? Could / should I change to 'Linux' from Ubuntu at a later date? I don't want to start with something that will have to be retrofitted to be what I really want.

Have done some homework and can't seem to find the answer. Newbie question, don't know if it belongs on server or newbie forum.

Thanks for reading,

DJ

Not sure what you mean by a "straight Linux LAMP server." When you go with Linux, you need to pick a distribution. Ubuntu is a popular one that appears to be relatively simple to install and get going with and it should work just fine. My impression is that people running enterprise servers tend to use Red Hat or Debian (and I'm sure others will chime in with their favorite). Eventually you'll probably discover that your decision on a Linux platform isn't going to lock you in to that platform. Apache, MySQL and PHP all run pretty much the same on all version of Linux, so porting your config files and applications should be very simple if you eventually decide to change the distro you're using.

--Bryan

In parts, I was a bit unsure about what this question was actually asking.

Err, that was a bit confusing, but I don't think there was anything there that was going to change the answer, so I'll just ignore it.

i think anyone who reads this will probably guess that this company could be summarised with a $ and an M, just not necessarily in that order. OK, I'm being unnecessarily cute about that, but if it is M$, it would probably be best to know.

I don't know if you are asking about the MySQL tools discussed here, here or here . Or, even, anything at all; maybe you are just irritated by M$, and are not trying to make any progress with that.

I don't know what that means - It sounded like it ought to make sense, but I'm really not sure what it means that you are actually going to do, or are doing:

• I want to facilitate the setup of my LAMP server - I think that you mean that you intend to actually install something, although facilitate might mean that someone else installs it, or even that you don't want to install anything, just prepare for it
• while I want to learn Linux - good
• I would like to do that incrementally - this is 'Learn Linux', rather than facilitating something, no?
• ...rather than as a precursor to the PHP - what? Possibly 'learning PHP' or something

This appears to be the core of your question. Like bryan641 I was a bit confused about this. An Ubuntu Lamp server is a Linux Lamp server, so the word 'straight' must be the key; I think that you are trying to make the distinction between 'with a GUI' and 'without a GUI', but I could be wrong. You could, for example, think that using Ubuntu adds some 'special sauce' that is in some way superior to what you'll get elsewhere - I don't really believe that you think that, but it could be a cause of confusion.

(To an extent, you could argue that there is a little 'special sauce' in that Ubuntu might claim that they have made install and configuration of programs more easy....but most other distros would make the same claim, too, so there isn't much, if anything, in it.)

However, Ubuntu doesn't have to have a GUI; if you do an 'Ubuntu server' install you will get a GUI-less server (to which you could a GUI, if you wanted to - there are reasons for not adding a GUI, but you could, if you had considered all of the issues, and decided that they didn't apply, or weren't of overriding significance, in your case, for example).

If you were going with Ubuntu Server, please check the 'support until' date; the latest LTS version is probably supported for longer than a more recent non-LTS version, for example, and that catches some people out.


There is only one minor thing wrong with Ubuntu as a production server; it is certainly a workable solution. There is something more major wrong with Ubuntu with a GUI - its got a GUI.

I don't know what specifically your concern about 'retrofitting' is; a GUI takes up (lots of) memory, and is a security risk, so that would be a specific concern, but, retrofitting, per se, sounds like a concern about 'installing programs'; provided the package manager and trusted sources are used, I don't see why you would have a concern about the general issue of installing programs - you'll have to install programs (eg MySQL) at some point, so you'd better do whatever it takes to get over that concern.

If you mean exactly (and I am mega-unclear on this):

• you want to set up a test server
• that will be local to you, in some way that the production server (colo?) will not be
• you wonder if it is acceptable to run a GUI on this test server
• the GUI would be a temporary aid, to get you started, and as well as using the GUI on the test server, you will learn the command line, so that when you have to do anything serious with your production server, you will know the CLI and will not need, and will not install, the GUI

If that interpretation is correct, I'd say that's fine (you may be underestimating the time that you need to learn the CLI, depending on your starting point, and whether you are a quick learner, or not); it is of course possible that you mean something else


On a more general level, I do wonder whether a better answer (though not one to a question that you've actually asked) might not be 'Use a CMS'. Using an Open Source CMS, such as Drupal, might hide a lot of the issues below a level of abstraction. You'd still have to know (or, employ someone who does know) some stuff about security, though. That's unavoidable, but something that seems to be omitted from all the general books on the subject (apart, obviously, from the specialist security books).

Sorry for the confusion . . . but thanks for your reply!

But to clarify a few things. Re MySQL - I love it! I just don't have the bandwidth to get it to work with the MS tools. And I have the MySQL workbench and a couple of other DB admin programs that work well.

Re setting up LAMP, I presume (excepting some security issues as you mentioned) that it is not so tough if you follow directions on the setup, which is given in a number of web sites. I'm finding a couple of sites that explain setting up CentOS 5 LAMP. Now I'm realizing that I will need DSN, email and FTP but . . . one thing at a time. Also, I realize that the GUI can be off and is not something you would have running on the production server.

Re. CLI, I don't know any Linux but am eager to learn and have been struggling with computers since the time of the card reader and TTY . . . and I knew DOS CLI pretty well and wrote batch files and such for years, so I'm thinking it won't be too bad.

So after a bit more research, let's say I will set up a Centos 5 server so we can start down some path. This may not be everone's choice, but it seems to suit a fair number of developers from what I can tell. Next I want to add the LAMP 'stack' and if not too much trouble, I could use FTP, email and DNS as well from the start.

I have found this
http://www.howtoforge.com/centos-5.1...-ftp-ispconfig
site, for example that offers a one disk download.

Is this a reasonable option for a newbie? Keep in mind that I do have some time to learn as I am running another server with the apps written on the other platform for now.

Regards . . .

You are right that LAMP setup is not so tough. It always helps to have done it once, previously first, particularly when you try it the first time.
If you google 'lamp stack' (you've probably already done this), you can find easy-to-follow instructions on many websites. I would say that any of them are good enough to get a 'local' (/staging/testing) server going, provided that it is walled off from the more dangerous nooks and crannies of the internet (depending on your local setup, it may be as dangerous as the internet)
DSN: did you mean DSL or DNS?

No, it'll be different. You could do worse than start messing around writing simple scripts, just to check.

Centos is a good option (as would be Debian). Not sure why you'd go for 5, if you could go for something more recent. Is it just that you have only found the tutorial for that version? TBH, if I can find a tut for one distro, I usually find it easy enough to convert how I do things on a different distro, but your mileage will probably vary, at least until you get used to the platform.