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Old 02-01-2015, 02:24 PM   #1
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Am I in the right place?


I'm a Linux newbie. I've been running Ubunto 14.04 LTS for about a year, now, and I really like it. I have a wired home Windoze network and access the Internet through an aging Linksys router and a satellite modem. The old router has been locking up frequently (once or twice a day). I can always fix it if I power it down and reboot it, but still it's an annoyance.

So rather than buy another proprietary router, I want to build my own server. I've never worked with a server in my life and have no idea how to go about building one. So I came here to see if I could find some people who will walk me through the process of building a server.

I want my server to do everything. It should act as a firewall and a network router (switch?). It should host a 5-disk RAID array. It should serve my three laser printers. It should do all of those things running Ubuntu 14.10 server.

My first question: Is it possible to build a single box that will do all those things, or am I asking too much, maybe buying trouble?

All input gratefully accepted. If I'm in the wrong forum just say so, and I'll disappear so fast you'll hear the air snap shut behind me. 8-)

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-01-2015, 05:23 PM   #2
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Building a server which perform those tasks is perfectly possible. It can be done in one server installation, no need to distribute it over several servers.

However, expecting people here to walk you through the process it tricky. You have to do your own research and your own work. Start by setting up a server and add one service at a time. Once you are stuck and can't find the answer in the documentation you are welcome with your questions.

jlinkels
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-01-2015, 05:31 PM   #3
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Rather than put multiple NICs in a server it sounds like you want two things:
- a file and print server
- a router on which you cna install a linux-based OS
 
Old 02-01-2015, 07:00 PM   #4
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Indeed the amount of eggs being equal to the amount of baskets is more a favorable condition. (Basket virtualization being another topic.) It also would be interesting to find out the reason why the router is locking up first. Fixing it, or mitigating excessive use if any, may (temporarily?) save time and money.
 
Old 02-01-2015, 07:48 PM   #5
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unSpawn -- I'm not interested in finding out why that old router locks up. I DID once disconnect it from the satellite modem and plug my PC directly into the modem. It worked just fine for two days until I unplugged the PC from the modem, plugged the router back into the modem and plugged my PC back into the router. Soon as I did that, I started having problems again. As for fixing the stupid thing -- it's solid state, so good luck trying to fix it.
 
Old 02-01-2015, 07:52 PM   #6
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linosaurus -- I DO want a print server and a router and a firewall. I also want a RAID-capable NAS, and I want all of those things built into a single box.
 
Old 02-01-2015, 08:18 PM   #7
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jlinkels tells me: "Start by setting up a server and add one service at a time. Once you are stuck and can't find the answer in the documentation, you are welcome with your questions."

My first problem is I don't know how to build a server. For example: I think -- considering the fact that I want a 5-disk RAID array -- I ought to get a server case rather than trying to use an ordinary desktop box. Another, related question is: Do I want a server box with hardware RAID built-in, or do I want a server box set up without hardware RAID in which I can use Linux to set up a software RAID array? I went on TigerDirect the past few days trying to figure that out for myself, but they're long on merchandise and short on advice. The price difference between a box with hardware RAID and a box without hardware RAID is substantial -- something like 3-or-4 hundred smackers. I can get a server box sans hardware RAID for something like 90 or 120 bucks. Boxes with hardware RAID start hundreds of dollars higher and CAN run as high as $2 or $3 k. I'm on fixed income (disability) so I want to go cheap. But at the same time I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars and end up with a P.O.S. Do I gotta have a server mobo? Or can I use an inexpensive ATX desktop mobo to do the same job more cheaply?

What kind (brand), what model of mobo should I get? Supermicro? ASUS? MSI? Gigabyte? I've pretty nearly decided on the case already. The one I picked has eight 3.5 inch hdd bays and two 5.5 inch bays. How big a power supply should I get? RAM isn't a problem at all. I have lots of DIMMs laying around here already. I can put four gigs on any board tomorrow, if I had one to use. I just don't know what to get. Processors? I'm partial to AMD, and I got a couple of those laying around here, too. So gimme some advice or refer me to a Linux Servers for Dummies book or something like that.

So I'm asking those questions up front before I start spending money for stuff that won't do the job or won't last more than a few months. Any advice I could get at this point should clue me as to what I need.

Thanks for any help, guys. I appreciate the responses.

Hummus Addict

Last edited by Hummus Addict; 02-01-2015 at 08:19 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 11:36 AM   #8
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From what I have heard and understand, a hardware RAID runs a lot faster than a software RAID. That being said, I have a 3-disk software RAID 0 and speed hasn't really been an issue.

For the motherboard, I won't claim to know what's the best. However, if you plan on using it to connect multiple computers via Ethernet, you will need to reserve space for extra network cards. If you plan on having a 5-disk RAID for storage, you should probably look for something with at least 6 SATA ports- 5 for your RAID and one for the OS. Technically, you could have the OS on the RAID, but it's usually recommended to separate them.

That's my two cents. Hope it helps.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:06 PM   #9
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For what you are asking I would expect a server capable of. It to cost a lot of money and use a lot of power.
Why, you may ask? Well, in order to be a router and a switch, allowing more than one device (computer/tablet/etcm) internet access and acces between themselves at the speed of a dedicated device you could well need a fairy hefty processor, relatively speaking.
Then, a DIY RAID will also tax the processor and obviously needs either a motherboard with a decent number of SATA ports (for software RAID) or a dedicated hardware RAID controller (for hardware RAID) which are not cheap.
My suggestion, and I hope others will point out where I am wrong and will likely not contradict them, is to purchase a new router and a decent SOHO NAS device with enough grunt to run some server processes. I can't see that costing more than DIY to buy, you can still tinker with software and I almost guarantee it will cost you less in electricity to run. The only potential downside being a RAID built with a proprietary controller could be hard to recover if it fails completely but, then, a RAID is not a backup and you would have the same problem in a DIY with a proprietary controller.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 01:57 PM   #10
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273 Senior Member -- Thank you kindly for your response. Maybe if I give you a few more details, you can help me further still.

I have 4 Windoze pcs and one Ubuntu Linux box on a wired home network. The machines access the internet through that crappy old router and a satellite modem. Thing is, there's only two of us living here, and we're seldom on the computers at the same time. I'm a writer, which means I'm a nightowl. Landlady sleeps all night and keeps house when she isn't watching TV and/or (she can do both things at once) playing on the Internet. Neither one of us does streaming audio or video, so the server I'm building isn't going to have to work very hard to keep up with us.

From what the others have told me up to this point, I've been doing some shopping. I've got my eye on a NEW (but cheap) server tower. It has 8 internal 3.5 in. drive bays. I'm planning a 5-drive RAID and one boot drive for a total of 6, which will leave me two extra bays for the next time I get stupid. Shopping tells me that server motherboards cost way too much for me. I can get a suitable desktop ATX board for between $100 and $150. ASUS and MSI both make boards in that price range with 6 SATA ports and 7 expansion slots. I've got my eye on a Promise raid controller card that supports 8 drives and sells for something like $275. WD red drives (2 TB size) retail for $110 each, so that's 560 bucks worth of hdds if I go the way I now plan to go (subject to change with additional input from you folks). Hardware RAID or Software RAID? No doubt software RAID is the cheapest way to go. If I go that route, I won't have to buy that $275 Promise RAID card. But that would be the only price difference between the two RAID systems, so far as I know.

When I had technical writing jobs, years ago, I knew several network administrators at different times. Every one of them told me that hardware RAID is the best way to go. They said it's more expensive up front but cheaper over the long haul (less downtime, fewer disasters). But I don't talk to those guys for about 10 years now, so maybe you folks can tell me: Were they right about hardware vs. software RAID or were they not? I truly do not know, never having had to build or maintain such a system. Perhaps they were wrong. Perhaps they were right at that time but things have changed to where that 'hardware-is-better' axiom is no longer true. I wish somebody here could tell me with confidence which way is better and (initial cost aside) why it is better.

Among the many things that puzzle me are the firewall/router/switch functions. How many NIC cards will I need? I might save a few bucks and a few headaches with an 8-port switch and (maybe) get better performance and control into the bargain. What would you do and why would you do it?

Then there's the print server idea. I have no idea what to do with gizmos named Samba and other such weirdnesses. . . .

All input is gratefully received and carefully considered. Thanks for your response, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Hummus Addict.

Last edited by Hummus Addict; 02-05-2015 at 02:01 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 02:33 PM   #11
273
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I am hoping somebody more knowledgeable will reply with more useful answers but, for example, I have never seen the need for a RAID in anything other than a server which must be on always -- it is absolutely never a backup and, in my experience, RAID5 is more likely to result in the loss of data than just one hard drive (for example). A good and verifiable (in other words you check it regularly) backup is the only way to protect data.
 
Old 02-06-2015, 11:06 AM   #12
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Senior Member -- So I hear you saying that my stuff is more at risk if I put it on an NAS (RAID) system than if I back it up weekly to something like a USB drive?

Then what is a RAID setup good for? Why does anybody build one / buy some NAS gizmo such as a DROBO?

Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing? Stranger things have happened, believe me. The plan was to build a weapon I don't know how to use mostly so I could learn how to use it. Why would I do that? Well, I'm too old for Lionel trains, you see. 8-)
 
Old 02-06-2015, 11:15 AM   #13
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I mean more that an external NAS box is supposed to be a backup of your data from other machines and, if at all possible, the data should exist in other forms also -- like having a seperate USB drive backup of each device or a "cloud" backup. The latter bringing up the fact that without an off-site backup an event which puts your home off limits for a while or, worse, destroys it will result in a complete loss of data.
The above said I tend to rate my data from "vital" which is on a USB in my wallet, on my desktop's SSD and hard drive, on the hard drive attached to my Pi and on a USB stick at home (or in my bag for work). Through to "couldn't care less" which may well exist only in one place.
 
Old 02-06-2015, 12:33 PM   #14
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Senior Member -- Now I hear you saying that if I'm smart, I'll back up my stuff in as many places as I can afford. That's sensible. I agree. But that won't teach me how to build and use a RAID array for my network, which is what I've set myself to do. I already had a Maxtor 80 gb, USB connected hdd and I used that for data backups of my Linux box for years. But it crapped out some weeks ago and now I'm backing up to a separate directory on the 500 gb internal drive (As an old DOS guy, I call it the 'C' drive) that runs everything in my Linux box. And believe me when I tell you, I already know THAT is surely 'datacide' over the long haul.

My Linux machine at its best has always been a gamble. I bought it because it was new and cheap. It's a Gateway SX2110G--UW23. I got it for $150 on sale. It came with Win 8 pre-installed. It took me about a week to figure out how to get inside and destroy that installation; the little box is one of those that was built to be tamper-proof. But I tampered with it and I got Ubuntu to run on it and it actually does a pretty good job. But it wasn't built to last and I never expected it to last this long. I've already got another case laying here on the floor. I plan to put a new machine inside that box and send the Gateway to computer heck. I also plan to write a how-to book for building a Linux server from scratch. I'm housebound, disabled, and I gotta do something to keep from going bonkers. I got a bazillion books about one thing or another, but I've already read most of them and I'm sick of writing book reviews anyway and I've already taught myself to make excellent bread. Doctors, in fact, would feel better if I hadn't done that. They tell me bread is bad for me -- too many carbos, it seems: "Tsk! Tsk! You shouldn't eat that stuff," quoth the doctors. But that's another story, and it's off topic.

As I said: You're right. I can get another external USB drive from Tiger. I could have it here tomorrow or the next day. I could use it for system and data backups. I will do as you suggest. But that still doesn't teach me how to build and deploy a RAID array, which is what I've set myself to do. I will go ahead with the construction regardless. I'm here to get advice so I don't buy stuff I don't need and don't build what I hope will be a solid RAID system and NOT a P.O.S. for my having taken the bit in my teeth and built the thing without seeking advice from my technical betters (people such as you).

The bottom line is: I want the most powerful home server that I can build for less than a thousand bucks. I don't have cash to buy all the hardware I'll need at once. So the build itself will take some months, maybe a year to do. But I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna ask questions along the way. If you folks don't want me pestering you around here, just say so and I'll go away. No hard feelings here.

Best.

Hummus Addict
 
Old 02-06-2015, 12:47 PM   #15
273
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Sorry, I think I understand now, you want to do this for fun as much as anything else.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that and I was being very dull and "worse case" and the like.
Hopefully some people on here will know of decent, not too pricey, components for you to play, oh, sorry, I mean learn with...

Edit: By the way, my name on here is "273" in case there was some confusion (I could explain it but the begining of the explanation is in my signature).

Last edited by 273; 02-06-2015 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Addition.
 
  


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