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Old 04-30-2006, 08:25 PM   #91
fraz
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I already read the article you mention and yes I understand fully that posix type os's simply doesn't on the face of it offer as many opportunities for hackers. That said you can't predict how progress will explode in an area until necessity drives it. Look at the space race for example, the technologies that came out of that were varied and many. The only reason why is because a "necessity" forced it. Hackers and virus authors would see the disappearance of windows as meaning hacking/infecting linux/macs/os2 as necessary then and progress would increase.
So I'm not saying linux and windows are comparable in these stakes nor the effort required to get into either, I'm just saying if there is a way, there is a way, and it will be found. Don't make the mistake of thinking there isn't a way.
As for using windows update through anything other that IE. Very true. You need insecure activeX controls to run these things. Not my idea of a nice browser, but I'll run it through internet explorer if i need to and use a nice browser for browsing. Not exactly a perfect solution but one that suits me. Especially since any site that logs my browser family will never see IE, whether in windows or linux.
I cna't say I've any personal experience with OS/2 but I still think computers for dummies holds windows as it's champion. While for me installing programs shouldn't be a case of bashing return till it finally shuts up. That suits my dad. Plus I didn't mean MS browser technology drove the internet revolution I meant bums in seats. I.e. the number of people with computers. For a start, and this is a point you may argue with me on, but your entry into the computer world was MS, as was mine, same for many linux users. I'll accept that if microsoft hadn't done it someone else would have but you can be sure it'd be another corporate entity that you'd hate just as much.
They may not have contributed the best of the innovation, namely the things you've mentioned and that we all know. But that doesn't mean they contributed none.

Now I'll retire from this argument. My impartiality is becoming less and less apparent to me.

Good chat though. I may drop in with my thoughts later.
 
Old 04-30-2006, 09:15 PM   #92
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
I'm just saying if there is a way, there is a way, and it will be found. Don't make the mistake of thinking there isn't a way.
So why aren't people looking for ways into Apache? I guess what you're saying is that they would if IIS didn't exist at all (even though it is still the most frequently attacked with less than 1/3 of Apache's installed base).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
I cna't say I've any personal experience with OS/2 but I still think computers for dummies holds windows as it's champion.
Where do you reckon they copied it from? The first time I fired up Windows 95 I almost threw up. My initial thoughts were that it was a direct copy of OS/2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
your entry into the computer world was MS, as was mine, same for many linux users.
Actually, my entry into computers pre-dates usable versions of Windows. I started out using Digital Research's version of DOS (DR-DOS) on a 16MHz '286 in 1989.

Gradually, I migrated to Windows as Microsoft had apparently killed all of its commercial competition. Due to its instability (among other things) I grew to hate Windows, and installed Linux in 1998 as a result of searching for alternatives on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
I'll accept that if microsoft hadn't done it someone else would have but you can be sure it'd be another corporate entity that you'd hate just as much.
Probably. Although if it were IBM I might not. I have a soft spot for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
They may not have contributed the best of the innovation, namely the things you've mentioned and that we all know. But that doesn't mean they contributed none.
I would argue that all the technologies that they have "created" were purchased, absorbed or copied in some way or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraz
Now I'll retire from this argument.
It's all healthy debate mate. I hope you're not taking it personally.
 
Old 04-30-2006, 09:17 PM   #93
Penguin of Wonder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
As for the Internet: It was well & truly on the upswing before Microsoft jumped on board. They didn't even ship a web browser with the first release of Windows 95. Paraphrasing Bill Gates at the time: "That thing'll never take off..." Public pressure made them buy a program called "Mosaic" and re-badge it "Internet Explorer." Is that what you'd call innovative?

Yeah. Maybe you should try running "Windows Update" thru another browser and see just how far you get...
Your argument overall isn't bad, but as for the part I quoted. Those two are totally unrelated. Not every page is Firefox compatiable, and not every page is IE compatitable. Either way you can still install either firefox or IE on your Windows computer.
 
Old 04-30-2006, 09:20 PM   #94
Penguin of Wonder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
So why aren't people looking for ways into Apache?
lol and who's to say that the aren't? Maybe they just haven't figured out how yet.
 
Old 04-30-2006, 09:34 PM   #95
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
lol and who's to say that the aren't? Maybe they just haven't figured out how yet.
Yes, I know. But the point is that at present more people are choosing to attack vulnerabilities in IIS than any other web server.

Doesn't this negate the whole "big target" argument? I mean, Apache currently has a 62% market share as against IIS's 25%...
 
Old 04-30-2006, 11:35 PM   #96
Penguin of Wonder
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To certain extent I believe it does. Sometimes I wonder about other reason why, what I call, evil hackers attack what they attack. For example, is there a "cool" factor associated with attacking Windows as opposed to Linux, or IIS instead of Apache? Is it that most evil hackers are only of medicore skill and the best they can do is a Windows virus instead of a more difficult target like Linux or OSX? I guess what I'm really getting at is what is the real intention of people who write viruses, and does that have any bearing on which system target?
 
Old 05-01-2006, 12:08 AM   #97
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
For example, is there a "cool" factor associated with attacking Windows as opposed to Linux, or IIS instead of Apache?
You could be onto something there. I suppose it would be quicker and easier to get results breaking Microsoft stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
I guess what I'm really getting at is what is the real intention of people who write viruses
To generate sales of course!!

Seriously, the AV companies seem to be working as hard as they can to publish "proof of concept" Linux viruses, if recent news is any indicator...

Last edited by rkelsen; 05-01-2006 at 12:10 AM.
 
Old 05-03-2006, 05:31 PM   #98
stunter
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Windows Vista: It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:18 AM   #99
Penguin of Wonder
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stunter thats amusing, and I think your right.
 
Old 05-04-2006, 03:20 AM   #100
Gogul
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I've read most of this thread and I think the basic conclusion is Windows suck

hehe there's something that was difficult to work out
 
Old 05-04-2006, 03:24 AM   #101
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Agreed. The argument was over how bad and in what ways it sucks. Important topic I know.
 
Old 05-06-2006, 11:40 AM   #102
1-3-3-7
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I've read about 15 posts from this thread, and it pretty much sums up that Vista is another attempt from MS to be "number 1", and they will probably fail. The # of linux users is growing and I think one day Windows 98 or even XP will be abandonware...

To show that their not even sure what there doing, it was originally called Long Horn, now there calling it Vista... (However name changes aren't that drastic, since the product wasn't being sold yet and was under Beta)

From what i've seen vista will take up lots of hardware resources, and on like the 3rd page some guy said it would cost $50 to $70??!? Yeah maybe their service pack! XP still costs like $100 and with $50 you can get Xandros which is a linux distro that was meant for former windows users.

MS uses alot of $$ on advertising, fooling some people into thinkin their OS is the best, hmm apple has done the same with their IPOD, many people say to me "can i see your ipod?" when it's a samsung mp3 player! And in a lot of shopping sites it says ipod/mp3 player , when an ipod is just an mp3 player..

Just my opinion...
 
Old 05-06-2006, 12:53 PM   #103
Gogul
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Quote:
To show that their not even sure what there doing, it was originally called Long Horn, now there calling it Vista...
I thought Long Horn was like a code name for the project until they announce the official release.

...well I could be wrong about that

Quote:
some guy said it would cost $50 to $70??!? Yeah maybe their service pack! XP still costs like $100 and with $50
I'm not sure about the exchange rate though in PC World XP professional cost 250 (can't remember the cost of the home edition though that may be closer to your estimate).

Quote:
many people say to me "can i see your ipod?" when it's a samsung mp3 player! And in a lot of shopping sites it says ipod/mp3 player , when an ipod is just an mp3 player..
I know exactly what you mean lol. it annoys me when people do that!

Edit: just thought I should mention I was referring to a full installation and not an upgrade for Windows.

Last edited by Gogul; 05-06-2006 at 02:57 PM.
 
Old 05-06-2006, 02:35 PM   #104
cormack
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Longhorn was just a develeopment name and was never going to be sold as that.

My sony walkman is called an ipod by people,
i tell people i dont have windows on my pc and the assums i have a mac even though macs arent realy pc's.
people assume that these things are correct due to the correct marketing. M$ doesnt realy lie in any of its ad's, they are just well marketed products.

A xp home edition upgrade costs around the 70 thats just for the home upgrade, and it doesnt even upgrade from win2k.

I thought Xandros was free?
I dont realy think that a fee should be charged for any linux distro realy unless it is for big business, although you only realy pay for the tech support, LQ has solved all my probs, thanks for that.

M$ tried to chrage me 50 to help them fix a win2k prob for me.

Vista is just another way for them to refresh their profits, from what i have seen Aero is the only major change from xp, o and that there is a google desktop tool bar, and a different colour task bar.

Hmm M$ the transparency effects arent even that good. Get it sorted, spend more time on coding it, get it great, put back in the new shell and the new filesystem, then release a good product rather than a half hearted money making OS.
 
Old 05-06-2006, 03:05 PM   #105
Gogul
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Question ??$==install or upgrade??

after that edit to my lat thread I just thought, are these prices mentioned for full installations of windows or upgrades?

if someone could help me out here it would be helpful.

Edit: btw, I've seen installations or Linux sold packaged which do cost money to buy, though I'm assuming it's only free to download (or possibly when released by a magasine such as Linux format)

Last edited by Gogul; 05-06-2006 at 03:08 PM.
 
  


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