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Old 08-04-2014, 08:45 AM   #16
NGIB
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I was being very generic in describing the process, especially the "stealing" part. If you choose "install alongside of Windows", it will generally pop up a window where you use a slider to indicate how much space you want to take from the Windows partition.

A few Linux distros are UEFI and secure boot capable but again much depends on your actual hardware. Herein lies the real problem - it's very difficult to support every hardware configuration and especially so for newer hardware...
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:14 AM   #17
LodeHere
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I already got a reply from Artyom Zorin:

"We have recently uploaded a fixed version of the Zorin OS 9 Core 64 bit .iso file which should fix the issues when dual booting with Windows 8 on a GPT partition table in UEFI mode. It should work normally (just like installing it alongside Windows 7 in regular BIOS mode) without the need for any additional configurations.
If you are still experiencing issues, we would recommend you to disable Secure Boot in the BIOS to ensure that Zorin OS boots up."

I replied:

"Thank you for your fast reply.

I don't know what "a GPT partition table in UEFI mode" is. But there is also a lot I don't know about what all those things are under the hood of a car. Luckily I don't have to know them to drive one.

Is that now also the case with Zorin 9? I only have to disable Secure Boot in the BIOS before installing Zorin 9 next to Windows 8? Or after installing Zorin? Or does it make no difference?

(Good to hear that no additional configurations are needed. Nor third party software like EasyBCD if I understand you well.)

Lode"
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:27 AM   #18
NGIB
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The problem with disabling secure boot is that Win 8 will no longer boot if you do.

You can try their new ISO and all may work fine - no guarantees though...
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:28 AM   #19
LodeHere
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Second reply:

"Although disabling secure boot isn't necessary in most cases, it's best to do so before booting up the LiveDVD/USB before installing to make sure that everything boots correctly."

My reply:

"Thank you much again.

Probably one last question:

I remember having seen a UEFI mode boot up option in the BIOS of my Windows 8 if I'm not mistaken. Is that the mode I must choose?

Lode"
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:30 AM   #20
LodeHere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGIB View Post
The problem with disabling secure boot is that Win 8 will no longer boot if you do.

You can try their new ISO and all may work fine - no guarantees though...
OMG...

I have a new System Image Backup I made and put on an external drive now that Windows 8 works fine again and looking like Windows 7. I also had made one before all that disaster hit, and then the System Image Backup did not work. Windows said something was missing.

I remember I had for the very first time not ticked (D) for that backup, and after it started wondered if I had made a mistake. I had figured that since (D) with the HP Recovery for Windows 8 on was on my hard disk it could always be accessed anyway. But after Windows told me it couldn't access (D) nor use that backup I wondered again if it needed that (D) on the backup too.

On Windows 7 (D) was checked by default, and I always included in in the System Image Backups. They always worked fine to restore my laptop to a previous state if I or some software had messed things up.

But now I have a new System Image Backup with (D) included. I wonder if it would work in case the Zorin thing went wrong again. Would a System Image Backup also delete or free the partition Zorin made?

If I put the double dots after the D in (D) it makes a smiley: (D

Last edited by LodeHere; 08-04-2014 at 09:51 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 09:31 AM   #21
NGIB
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Seems like you are dealing with the developer now so I can bow out after this.

What the developer was telling you was to disable secure boot temporarily to check if the live version will even run well on your hardware.

The UEFI boot mode and secure boot are separate settings in the BIOS and there may also be some type of fastboot setting which can also cause problems...

Last edited by NGIB; 08-04-2014 at 09:34 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:06 AM   #22
LodeHere
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Alright! Thanks for explaining.

So the Secure Boot must be enabled for Windows to boot up. I had it disabled at one point thinking that Zorin needed that. No wonder Windows didn't boot up then.

When you are new to these things and you get a whole load of long complicated tutorials recommended -as I got on the Zorin forum- you tend to get confused. At least I do.

I had seen that the UEFI settings were separate from the Secure Boot settings. The Secure Boot setting required for Windows I now understand after your explanation, including that having it enabled is fine for Zorin. Only the UEFI setting is not clear to me yet. Nor if I even have to bother with that... I remember having seen boot options in it, and I tried those when things didn't work. But that might have been due to Secure Boot being disabled. And the Backup not working, nor (D) might also have been due to that.

I have to know about needing or not needing to boot up in one of those URFI options before I would consider diving in again.

Last edited by LodeHere; 08-04-2014 at 10:17 AM.
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:25 AM   #23
LodeHere
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Another reply from the developer:

"That should be the default boot mode. You can keep it at that setting."

That was to my question:

"I remember having seen a UEFI mode boot up option in the BIOS of my Windows 8 if I'm not mistaken. Is that the mode I must choose?"

So do I understand it well that he means not to touch the UEFI? To use the default option with Secure Boot enabled? (Only disabling that latter one when installing Zorin, but after that enabling it again.)
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:30 AM   #24
schneidz
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mite i recommend getting linux oem pre-installed on a pc so you dont have to worry about bios switches and drivers...

if you have your heart settled on zorin then that will probably be hard since the few vendors that support linux tend to only support ubuntu ?
 
Old 08-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #25
LodeHere
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Thank you. That would require me to get another notebook or bringing the one I have to someone who could install that on it.

I appreciate your help. But I am not that desperate. As said, my notebook looks like it has Windows 7 on it, even though it is Windows 8. And Windows 7 is fine with me.

The point for me now is to find out exactly how to install Zorin in dual boot mode with Windows 8. So I can try it out one more time, and if it works, write a short tutorial for it and post it on the Zorin Forum and recommend the developer to publish it on the Zorin site as an addition in the Install Guide already there. It sure would have helped me.

To begin with, now that Zorin 9 is offered on that site, this might be updated in the Installation Guide, as Zorin 9 makes it's own partition by itself:

"6. Later you will be prompted to make a new partition, a partition is a thing you make if you want to install an alternate operating system. This slices your Hard Drive to allow the installation of another operating system."
 
Old 08-04-2014, 01:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
As I had to buy a new notebook some weeks ago with Windows 8 on it, and that OS giving me lots of problems, I got interested again in Zorin.

The Windows 8 problems began right from the start with failures to configure the first 90 of a series of nearly 200 essential Windows updates, and trying to configure them again unsuccessfully during every reboot, throwing my machine in a loop, which I could only solve by using the Refresh option of Windows 8 to get rid of those updates, and after re-installing my stuff, disabling Windows security updates all together.
It sounds like this brand new notebook gave you problems immediately. So, the real issue is why didn't you just return it? If I bought something brand new, I would expect it to work (I certainly would not disable windows security updates). So, starting to mess with linux is just complicating the issue -- if you have a defective machine, it should be returned for repair or replacement. I hope this Zorin adventure hasn't ruined that possibility. Maybe you should be asking for advice on how to completely remove all traces of Zorin so you can return this defective pc.
Quote:
That latter is no problem as I always surf sandboxed. Also this I'm typing in my Sandboxie virtual space. Plus I have Emsisoft Anti-Malware, Online Armor firewall, Malwarebytes Pro, and HitmanPro free.
All those programs are not intended to replace windows security updates. You really need to fix the windows before messing with the linux (since that is why you said you bought the new pc).
 
Old 08-04-2014, 03:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
The point for me now is to find out exactly how to install Zorin in dual boot mode with Windows 8
Zorin is just another of dozens of Ubuntu knock-offs. Their claim is that it is more windows-like or easier for windows users to switch to. I guess that's something each user needs to decide for himself/herself. If you have Zorin installed, any time you download any software, it will come from the Ubuntu repositories. So the differences between Zorin and Ubuntu are superficial. Zorin uses the same installer as Ubuntu and a number of its derivatives. If you had installed a number of them, you would see that the biggest difference is that in Ubuntu you have a purple background in the various installation windows, with Mint it will be green, with Zorin it will be blue. So the install process is very similar.

The link below explains installing Ubuntu and windows 8 with uefi and at least explains some of the problems you are likely to encounter and should at least provide answers to some questions.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

It would be nice if Zorin had a specific tutorial and it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do but that's up to them.
 
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:25 PM   #28
Fred Caro
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yancek's link is rather old and seems to rely on the currency of Ubuntu's shim to daul boot.
Zorin may not have that shim.
I would like, at least to be able to buy a Gnu/linux machine,or convert a machine, from a shop. Not have to worry about loosing what you have bought, or at least get a refund if you are forced to buy it as part of a package.
As it stands, looks like you are forced to buy Windoze or overpriced Mac pc (fancy BSD) from new, preinstalled or take your chances, at least in the UK.

Fred.
 
Old 08-05-2014, 02:14 AM   #29
LodeHere
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Thank you all for your kind responses.

Right after posting my last above post, closing my browser, and waiting a few seconds for the sandbox to empty, I rebooted. And the "Failure to configure Windows updates" loop began again! How did Windows updates start again after I had disabled it?

After tweaking everything I let HP run its "Tune-up" option to round things off. Little did I know that that enabled the Windows Updates automatic download and install function...

I tried to use my System Image Backup saved on my external hard drive, but no dice again. Refresh no dice either, nor System Restore. It might have been those already downloaded but waiting in line to be configured updates that interfered.

So I had to reformat AGAIN! Forth time in a few days. I can't believe it. Getting to D: I couldn't, but luckily my flash drive with the factory image worked.

I found out that in Windows 8 you have to do a series of things to make and use System Backups that are not needed in Windows 7.
This is for Windows 8.1 but similar to 8, and after doing this you must change the boot sequence and use a recovery disk (or flash drive I suppose):

"Create System Image Backup of Windows 8.1 and Restore from it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPIgrzHKgXo#t=165

I'll stick to making System Restore points. And in an emergency use Refresh. It will work as long as I have updates disabled. And I'll make sure of that. No more HP "Tune-ups."

As for bringing my notebook back to the store, I would rather not have to go through hours of getting my machine in the all tweaked state it is again in now. I like my current Windows 7 look and feel even though it runs on Windows 8. Besides that my Compaq CQ58 was only €329. Can't find a lower price for a 15.6" notebook that works fine (except for needless Windows updates in my case.)

Again, those security updates are not needed as I've never gotten any malware on my notebook by always surfing and opening my mail sandboxed by default. There are Sandboxie users who for years have not had any AV on their systems without ever getting malware. Although the developer of Sandboxie -Tzuk- strongly recommends to use AV for just in case. He told me once during an email exchange that it only happened a few times a year that someone had found a way to penetrate the sandbox wall. And that he always quickly had found a way to close it. So the chances of getting infected are very slim, almost nihil. Even more so with the excellent AV I have.

But thank you for your kind concern.

I still have not gotten a reply to my last question to Artyom Zorin:

"So do I understand it well that you mean not to touch the UEFI? To use the default option with Secure Boot enabled? (Only disabling that latter one when installing Zorin, but after that enabling it again.)"

To me that is an omen not to continue with the Zorin experiment. At least not for now. I'm glad things work and look fine again on my laptop.

Last edited by LodeHere; 08-05-2014 at 02:28 AM.
 
Old 08-05-2014, 07:46 AM   #30
LodeHere
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Cool

My System Backup difficulty solved and even for free:

"How to Create Complete System Backup and Restore Using AOMEI Backupper"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vfHa1iTns

 
  


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