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Old 03-21-2005, 09:26 PM   #46
M O L8ingN2dust
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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The People's Republic of Lumps in my Oatmeal!
Distribution: Mepis 3.2.1-1
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Quote:
Originally posted by 357mag
Well I gotta tell you the truth. We're living in a Windows world. Realize that 90 percent of the population use some form of Windows on their personal computers. That's staggering. I've used Windows 2000 for the last 5 years and have been very happy with it. But from time to time I do like snooping into new software and I guess that's why I've been investigating Linux. But unfortunately I've discovered that Linux is very hard to use. It simply does not automatically detect most hardware and instantly set it up to use like Windows does. The reason Microsoft is so successful is because they have made an operating system that's so easy to use that practically anyone can learn to use a computer with Windows installed on it. Windows 2000 and Windows XP are extremely stable and reliable, and the only time you really need to restart your machine is when you install a piece of software that requires a reboot.

I've tried 5 Linux Live CD's so far and the one that comes the closest to being usable from the start is Mepis. But I can't access my zip drive with it. With every distro I've tried I have been unable to either access my zip and usb drives through a desktop icon or in one case not even through the console window. Realize unlike Windows, you're going to be asking tons of questions and your only help will be internet forums. And you won't understand everything that people are saying, cause Linux places you closer to the engine than Windows does.

You can try out some Live CD's just to see what the desktop and menus look like, and see if they will detect your internet connection and printer and such. But it's my opinion that Linux is simply not for the masses. Most people should stick with Windows. In fact trying these Linux distros has just caused me to appreciate Windows that much more, cuz Microsoft has put in a lot of effort to make their operating system quite easy to use.
Do you work for windows, if not you should!


Ignore all that, linux is fine for the masses. Are we to all have unethical software full of bugs that is constantly hijacking our computers? M$ is the epitamy of corporate greed, and they are only out for profit. Their business methods are completely unethical. They are big on the corporate take overs, and screw over every company that does business with them. They take advantage of computer users that know nothing of their computer, by hijacking their hardrives, and bandwidth to do what you ask? Why to keep records of the very people they are abusing, and perform other unethical clandestine activities. People don't choose M$ because they like it. They choose it because they have no other options. Linux distros are getting better and better. They are detecting more and more software, and are becoming increasingly user friendly. The Linux OS is also rapidly increasing in popularity, and M$ is starting to feel very threatened. You can find different ads all over the internet that claim to have "unbiased comparisons" between linux and M$, which downplay every linux strength which lead to none other then, you guessed it! www.microsoft.com!

If you want to check out some really user-friendly linux software, I suggest getting linspire lindows. It is actually easier to work with then M$ in many ways. Check out their flash demo at www.linspire.com and see for yourself how easy it is to use.

If windows is so great ask yourself this? Why does no one every complain about mac os? Why is it that you cannot get another "user friendly" OS (other then some of the very recent linux distros) without buying hardware that is double the price of what you should be paying? M$ is a big corporate bully, and nothing more. They hire only mediocre software programmers, purposely leave bugs in their systems, and create terribly written software. They were ripping off apple to begin with in the first place. The only reason why everyone uses M$ is because they have no other options unless they pay too much. M$ comes loaded on your computer unless you either build your own, or buy a mac. That's why so many people have it. Half of those people probably have no concept of what linux even really is...

Last edited by M O L8ingN2dust; 03-22-2005 at 02:03 AM.
 
Old 03-21-2005, 11:03 PM   #47
foo_bar_foo
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Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,553

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Quote:
practically anyone can learn to use a computer with Windows installed on it
just an example:
my wifes pc has win 2000
i put "MS picture it" on there

if you double click a "picture it" icon even as administrator it says
error: to install this product you need to be running windows 98 or greater

if you try to lauch "picture it" as a regular user it says
you must have administrative privaledges to start this programm

so you log out and log back in as administrator (something my wife can't do on her own)and it actually runs some as administrator but randomely does
"pip.exe has performed an illegal operation and will shut down and she looses all her work"

as an extra side bonus now if she tries to spell check in outlook express in gives you the same speel about
error: to install this product "picture it" you need to be running windows 98 or greater
followed by a barradge of error boxes that is seems for a while will not end but eventually does

but over and over people come on this board and talk about how user freindly and easy to use and stable MS products are

so just tell us how much MS pays you to spam our board and then leave us alone cause we don't care about how wonderfull windows is !

i'm afraid to install anything on windows lest i end up having to reformat the drive and reinstall
 
Old 03-21-2005, 11:09 PM   #48
zcorker
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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Renton, WA
Distribution: Debbian
Posts: 21

Rep: Reputation: 15
Trouble installing Debian Linux

Have you ever tried Debian Linux? I am trying to install it as a dual boot with dos and windows 2k and have a big mess. Windows is acting real weird since I installed this and I am wondering if something is going on. One person said that I may have a mirror partition. My Windows Explore won't open up since installing Debbian Linux on a logical drive. Also, at startup I get a boot loader menu created by Debbian Linux. The menu offers 3 selections -- Linux, other operating systems, and /dev/hda5 which is supposed to be Win2k. If I select hda5, the computer freezes and locks up. If I select other operating system (option 2), it then boots to a Win2k menu after about 5 minutes. Besides Windows Explorer not displaying anything, I am unable to save files without a fancy work around. System appears to be pretty slow and sluggish.

What do i do to get Debbian Linux working with a dual boot. I have Linux set to the primary boot. Is this necessary? One of the requirements with Win2k is that dos be the primary boot when doing a dual boot with Win2k and dos.

ZCorker
<rjs4you@juno.com>



Quote:
Originally posted by 357mag
Well I gotta tell you the truth. We're living in a Windows world. Realize that 90 percent of the population use some form of Windows on their personal computers. That's staggering. I've used Windows 2000 for the last 5 years and have been very happy with it. But from time to time I do like snooping into new software and I guess that's why I've been investigating Linux. But unfortunately I've discovered that Linux is very hard to use. It simply does not automatically detect most hardware and instantly set it up to use like Windows does. The reason Microsoft is so successful is because they have made an operating system that's so easy to use that practically anyone can learn to use a computer with Windows installed on it. Windows 2000 and Windows XP are extremely stable and reliable, and the only time you really need to restart your machine is when you install a piece of software that requires a reboot.

I've tried 5 Linux Live CD's so far and the one that comes the closest to being usable from the start is Mepis. But I can't access my zip drive with it. With every distro I've tried I have been unable to either access my zip and usb drives through a desktop icon or in one case not even through the console window. Realize unlike Windows, you're going to be asking tons of questions and your only help will be internet forums. And you won't understand everything that people are saying, cause Linux places you closer to the engine than Windows does.

You can try out some Live CD's just to see what the desktop and menus look like, and see if they will detect your internet connection and printer and such. But it's my opinion that Linux is simply not for the masses. Most people should stick with Windows. In fact trying these Linux distros has just caused me to appreciate Windows that much more, cuz Microsoft has put in a lot of effort to make their operating system quite easy to use.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 04:32 PM   #49
finnjimm
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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Finland
Distribution: SUSE 9.2
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For me Linux is simply the fun on computers resurrected. On Windows it's easy to do a few lame things, but on Linux it's only marginally harder to do amazing things. Plus it's cheap. And cool.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 07:11 PM   #50
masonm
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Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Following the white rabbit
Distribution: Slackware64 14.2 Solus
Posts: 2,264

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zcorker; it sounds more like an error you made in partitioning and setting up the system than any fault of Debian.
 
Old 03-22-2005, 07:27 PM   #51
goosehunter
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Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 9

Original Poster
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Novell

Today Tuesday the 22 I read in the newspaper(I live in salt lake) that in the salt palace there is a Novell expositionm, I thought I would like to go See. WhenI got there I saw LOTS of people and disiplays, I was supposed to register and get a badge, when they asked for $1795.00 I deceided I was in the wrong place, But what I saw was a lot of paeople (all Kinds) paying the price,so they could update their experiences and maybe satisfy their boss's. Lots of programers, there was a computer set up for any one who wanted to PLAY.
the point is that Novell and Linux will surely go some where in the business and it's comming soon now. So M$ will not always have the edge on stupidity.
 
Old 03-24-2005, 03:42 AM   #52
Hosiah
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Distribution: Slackware, Mandriva, Debian derivatives, +BSD/ Solaris/ Minix/ plan9/ GNU/HURD...
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digitalhead:
Quote:
You should check the template design because the info pane on the left is covering part of the first 3 paragraphs.
I agree, and I'm also looking to move the whole thing to another blog hoster. Just the other day, I tried fixing just that defect, but it wouldn't publish. And the way I have it now was to compensate for how they wrecked it the LAST time they changed everything. HTML code tags are supported one week, and don't work the next. And don't get me started on how miserable C code looks when it's posted there! In fact, not only is Blogger consistantly broken, but it's broken in a new, different, creative "I-never-would-have-thought-of-that" way *every* *single* time I try to use it. And the technical supporters are such marvels of helpfulness, they rank right up there with the Frechmen from Monty Python's The Holy Grail in my book!

The search will continue for a saner atmosphere!
 
Old 03-24-2005, 11:15 AM   #53
mjjzf
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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Valby, Denmark / Citizen of the Web
Distribution: Slackware 14.1
Posts: 879

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Quote:
Why does no one every complain about mac os?
- One might suspect that Macs are a lot easier to work with because the hardware base is much more limited than our piece-it-together PCs.
As a comment to this whole discussion: I don't think that a total beginner with a computer will find SuSE much different from Windows, except for the price and the available programs. I always thought the well-defined Linux file structure makes a lot of sense, even if the idea of mount points left me puzzled at first.
As for the mention of Linspire, I suspect they are very frustrated at MS that they didn't put out the Click'n Run Warehouse.
The main point with Linux, IMO, is that you can find exactly what you need - or modify to exactly what you need. As there are not as many programmers as there are users, the first seems more important, but the last has given birth to great projects - The lightness of VectorLinux, the possibilites with Knoppix and the interface and multimedia of Geexbox, for instance, or the localized versions. I heard a lecture by John Maddog Hall a couple of months ago; he said that users oof Swahili dialects had usable systems in their own language for the first time - and this was done through Linux.
 
Old 03-24-2005, 03:24 PM   #54
Hosiah
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Distribution: Slackware, Mandriva, Debian derivatives, +BSD/ Solaris/ Minix/ plan9/ GNU/HURD...
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Back on the original topic, no discussion of this nature is complete without citing the "Book of Genesis" of computers:

http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y..._I_C_O_N.shtml

"In the Beginning Was the Command Line" by Neal Stephenson
An entertaining, imaginative, and knowledgable writer breaks down the entire computer scene from the mainframe to the hippest new distros. And the article contains the ultimate answer to this thread's original question.
 
Old 03-24-2005, 08:08 PM   #55
hshane
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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, Texas
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 9

Rep: Reputation: 0
I am reminded of the old joke that is probably familiar to many, but I just can't resist posting it in this thread...

If Operating Systems Ran The Airlines
===========================


UNIX Airways: Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building.

Air DOS: Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on ...

Mac Airlines: All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air: The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a slow but smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows NT Air: Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

Linux Air: Disgruntled employees and passengers of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download
and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the Seat-HOWTO. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is
very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, and the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"

hs
 
Old 03-25-2005, 06:59 AM   #56
harzfled
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Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 23

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally posted by M O L8ingN2dust
Do you work for windows, if not you should!


Ignore all that, linux is fine for the masses. Are we to all have unethical software full of bugs that is constantly hijacking our computers? M$ is the epitamy of corporate greed, and they are only out for profit. Their business methods are completely unethical. They are big on the corporate take overs, and screw over every company that does business with them. They take advantage of computer users that know nothing of their computer, by hijacking their hardrives, and bandwidth to do what you ask? Why to keep records of the very people they are abusing, and perform other unethical clandestine activities. People don't choose M$ because they like it. They choose it because they have no other options. Linux distros are getting better and better. They are detecting more and more software, and are becoming increasingly user friendly. The Linux OS is also rapidly increasing in popularity, and M$ is starting to feel very threatened. You can find different ads all over the internet that claim to have "unbiased comparisons" between linux and M$, which downplay every linux strength which lead to none other then, you guessed it! www.microsoft.com!

If you want to check out some really user-friendly linux software, I suggest getting linspire lindows. It is actually easier to work with then M$ in many ways. Check out their flash demo at www.linspire.com and see for yourself how easy it is to use.

If windows is so great ask yourself this? Why does no one every complain about mac os? Why is it that you cannot get another "user friendly" OS (other then some of the very recent linux distros) without buying hardware that is double the price of what you should be paying? M$ is a big corporate bully, and nothing more. They hire only mediocre software programmers, purposely leave bugs in their systems, and create terribly written software. They were ripping off apple to begin with in the first place. The only reason why everyone uses M$ is because they have no other options unless they pay too much. M$ comes loaded on your computer unless you either build your own, or buy a mac. That's why so many people have it. Half of those people probably have no concept of what linux even really is...
Hi, u got me interested about Linspire. I checked around and couldnt find free linspire iso download to burn on my disc. But I found out about coupon to use on linspire site thru google here
http://geekswithblogs.net/tpatel/arc.../17/11295.aspx
Going try it tmw, Im beated from staying up all nite & morning reading too much impressive and informative stuff here.
 
Old 03-25-2005, 10:37 AM   #57
visaris
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Distribution: gentoo
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One thing no one seems to mention about linux is all the software that comes with your average distro. When you buy windows, you get.... windows, a web browser, a text editor, a media player (without the newer codecs), a calculator ... and... and... damn. I ran out of things it comes with.

Windows comes with nothing:

No compiler, no debugging tools, no pdf / postscript tools, no word or word clone (word pad and notepad suck, sorry), no graphics program (paint is not good enough), no compression tools (zip, bzip, rar, etc), no benchmark tools, no network packet sniffers / network tools, no full-featured firewall, no java, no latex utils, no mail filtering software, no mail server, no webserver, no ftp server, no p2p clients, no science / astronomy / electronics / math / etc utils, no new filesystem support such as reiserfs / XFS / etc. Not to mention XP Home won't even work on a dual processor / dual-core box.

Man, I could go on for days! Windows is worthless. For $99.98 you get an os that only works on one processor and... that's it. You can download Linux ISO's for free, get a whole A$$-load of good software, and then, when you're impressed and in awe of everything you just got for free, you can take the time to donate a few $$ to the cause.

Why anyone would use windows is just beyond me.
Ok, if you have to for school/work, or you game a lot. Only three god reasons I can think of.
 
Old 03-25-2005, 11:46 AM   #58
amer_58
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Distribution: Slackware 10.2
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I would agree that Linux is not easy to use, the reason is that we are used to use windows which is really easy, i have tried installing Linux many times, but i always end up going back to windows, this time i have moved completely to Linux, Linuxqustion.org has helped me with that, all kind of questions that would cross my mind i would ask here, and i would get all kind of support, I just love using Linux, i don't know how to explain that, I feel that i am using my brain a bit, with windows I feel like a child ... Keep clicking the next button....etc.
i have installed all software that i need to insure that I wouldn't go back to windows, three months, it becomes a habit, when the lilo boots my finger goes to Linux without even reading or realizing that i have windows option....

Take your time, spend some time reading tutorial and u wont have any problems, if u do though thats why this forum exists...

I would agree that Linux is not for lazy people..

Thanks.
 
Old 06-30-2005, 06:04 PM   #59
slacker9876
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Colorado
Distribution: Ubuntu 6.10, SLED 10
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Re: preinstalled

Quote:
Originally posted by rmakers
The one hurdle I think Linux has to make before the masses will take hold of it is preinstallation on new purchased PCs. When people buy a new computer, it's pre set up, windows isn't just installed, but all the drivers are there, everything is configured at least close enough so that you can turn on the system and check your e-mail, play with some multi-media, instant gratification, this makes a big difference, people don't feel like they have to work so hard to get they're new toy to do something.
Just a couple notes on this and I may not be the first to post this (have not finished reading the thread) but this has already happened. HP had a huge partner announcement with SuSe where all HP PC's shipped to Europe will have SuSe Linux. Also Dell has their brand new "N" series that come with FreeDOS or RedHat Linux pre-installed. I also read in Wired that like 66% of all web servers are Apache (not IIS) and MySQL is taking huge ground away from SQL Server 2000. It is just a matter of time and there will be "real" competition out there for Microsoft. People like me (12 yrs in the biz & an MCSE) are just sick not not being able to make computers do what they want without cutting M$ a huge check.
 
Old 06-30-2005, 09:54 PM   #60
trey31357
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Considering how far I had to scroll down the page, and without really even reading all the responses, it's easy to see you've sparked a Windows v. Linux debate. Of the bits and pieces I did read, I (regretfully) must agree with whoever said it's easier to stick with Windows. Windows is fairly stable these days, and while it does have more security holes than Linux, if you won't take the time to learn how to set up a decently secured, stable Windows box, you're probably not going to take the time to learn Linux.

But you can. If you don't mind putting in the effort to learn, download a distro and go for it. And if user-friendliness is a big issue, download a copy of Mandriva and try it. It's a little different, but you can do pretty much anything that you can in Windows with just as much ease, and if you have mouse, you'll be able to, as you say, "find your way around."
 
  


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