LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Linux Power User Bundle
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 08-11-2013, 07:56 AM   #16
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825

Quote:
Originally Posted by konsolebox View Post
@TobiSGD Mind if I ask what audio applications you use? And PulseAudio I think is not for power users. It's difficult to make it work with UID 0.
I usually use Audacious and VLC for media playback. I never had any issues with PulseAudio and UID 0 for the simple reason that I don't know of any use-case where it would be necessary or recommended to run a mediaplayer as root.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 08:57 PM   #17
frankbell
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Distribution: Slackware, Debian, Mint, OpenBSD
Posts: 11,328
Blog Entries: 12

Rep: Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725Reputation: 2725
I've sort of gravitated to VLC for everything, since it pretty much plays everything and I don't care about fancy stuff like "cataloging" my media or creating playlists.

I used to use XMMS a lot, because I have some nice skins I'd built for WinAmp (nothing fancy; I built them with SkinAmp and they would work with XMMS), but I've drifted away from it.
 
Old 08-11-2013, 11:14 PM   #18
konsolebox
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Distribution: Gentoo, Slackware, LFS
Posts: 2,248
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 235Reputation: 235Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I usually use Audacious and VLC for media playback. I never had any issues with PulseAudio and UID 0 for the simple reason that I don't know of any use-case where it would be necessary or recommended to run a mediaplayer as root.
I guess PulseAudio is not for all users and is more of a philosophical tool. I think it's wrong for not so security-related applications restrict users on its own and not let users decide how to secure applications by themselves. At least another application or optional extension should do that. And a recommended approach is not always correct especially to those users who know what they are doing. Sometimes it just makes life unnecessarily more difficult.
 
Old 08-12-2013, 05:17 AM   #19
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Originally Posted by konsolebox View Post
I guess PulseAudio is not for all users and is more of a philosophical tool. I think it's wrong for not so security-related applications restrict users on its own and not let users decide how to secure applications by themselves. At least another application or optional extension should do that. And a recommended approach is not always correct especially to those users who know what they are doing. Sometimes it just makes life unnecessarily more difficult.
I am really interested in that. Which reason do you have to run media applications as root?
 
Old 08-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #20
konsolebox
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Distribution: Gentoo, Slackware, LFS
Posts: 2,248
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 235Reputation: 235Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Which reason do you have to run media applications as root?
I run a UID 0 user as default since I find it convenient, and I play many music files most of the time on the console when I'm not in GUI, or in a virtual terminal. Of course I use VLC too with a wrapper but most of the time only with video files since VLC is less easier to manage with playlists, and requires you to use a mouse. I use smplayer as an alternative to it as well sometimes. Other GUI solutions like Amarok are also good for taste, but are heavy.

Running as a normal user makes me run sudo many times and I didn't like it. When needing to run GUI applications as root, I had to use a terminal to run them instead of just using the Desktop Manger's run command with a shortcut which is really a lot quicker and less troublesome. You also don't have to mind yourself if editing a file, or doing a task requires higher permissions or not. But of course I apply security restrictions to an object when needed and I'm aware of it and still keeps things permission consistent.
 
Old 08-12-2013, 10:20 AM   #21
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
So actually you have no good reason to run your mediaplayer as root. OK, that is up to you, but not something I would do.
Quote:
Running as a normal user makes me run sudo many times and I didn't like it.
su, problem solved. I always have a root terminal open anyways, so
Quote:
When needing to run GUI applications as root, I had to use a terminal to run them instead of just using the Desktop Manger's run command with a shortcut which is really a lot quicker and less troublesome.
is not a problem at all for me.
Quote:
You also don't have to mind yourself if editing a file, or doing a task requires higher permissions or not.
My Vim has this in the .vimrc
Code:
cmap W :w !sudo tee % > /dev/null
so that I can save as root anyways if i have forgotten to elevate my rights when editing a file with just using W instead of w and typing in my password. A good configured system/well written software also should just ask you for the root password (or yours, if you use sudo) if you don't have the rights for a given task.

So i personally have no problems at all with not using the root user for everyday tasks and I see no reason to do that, but as said above, it is up to you how you run your system (as long as you don't endanger other systems with that).

Last edited by TobiSGD; 08-12-2013 at 10:21 AM.
 
Old 08-12-2013, 03:19 PM   #22
konsolebox
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Distribution: Gentoo, Slackware, LFS
Posts: 2,248
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 235Reputation: 235Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
So actually you have no good reason to run your mediaplayer as root. OK, that is up to you, but not something I would do.
If I have media files mounted on different locations with different ownerships or permissions I would have to use many instances of player applications for every user which is not a good thing for me. Even when you're just browsing as a normal user with a file manager like Dolphin and you end up trying to open a media file that happens to be yours but was just saved as a different user, you would still have to run another user for it instead of just clicking it, knowing that you wanted to avoid running it as root. PulseAudio and VLC as well doesn't like running as root so you would have problems running them like it sometimes.

Sometimes you also can't avoid mounting external media manually on a specific directory independent of /media automounters like udisks. Surely default permissions would naturally be root again if you didn't add more options, unless you somehow found a way to configure udev to have every external drive with different signatures universally mount with a custom group by default. And that is still system dependent. If I run the media player as UID 0 I wouldn't have to configure those stuffs and not even bother trying to remember the options everytime I mount manually.

Quote:
I always have a root terminal open anyways, so is ... not a problem at all for me.
I did that too before actually but sometimes when I don't have a terminal open I could just type my configured keyboard shortcut which is a lot easier actually. Actually I open a terminal before running a GUI application that's easier to run through typing more often now but the only thing I would press is the easy two-key shortcut for the terminal and passwords are no longer needed. Doesn't even matter if the current terminals are in use or not.
Quote:
My Vim has this in the .vimrc
Code:
cmap W :w !sudo tee % > /dev/null
so that I can save as root anyways if i have forgotten to elevate my rights when editing a file with just using W instead of w and typing in my password.
But wouldn't that solution write a new file by default for the root user? And how would you be able to do that with powerful GUI editors like Notepad++?

Quote:
A good configured system/well written software also should just ask you for the root password (or yours, if you use sudo) if you don't have the rights for a given task.
I think it's a decision to make too if you would make your software depend on sudo or not, but I don't disagree about softwares asking for permission when needed, but that's only for the side of the software. And there are also times when a software really can't ask for a user's password like when there is no interaction with the user or when the interaction is delayed somehow like in automated tasks where you can't tell if you need higher permissions until you get into the procedure that could be blocked for it. And storing a user's password temporarily is not a good idea. A terrible workaround.

A good configured system on the other hand on a traditional point of view may not be that good if it gives an unnecessary delay for an advanced user.

Quote:
So i personally have no problems at all with not using the root user for everyday tasks and I see no reason to do that, but as said above, it is up to you how you run your system (as long as you don't endanger other systems with that).
I'm really used to running systems with full permissions, even before I knew Linux, and the systems I loved to play around was DOS. I started mastering Linux as root. I loved the # sign. I see power in it, and never liked the $ sign for a user. I found it to be weak and lame. I even replaced the $ prompt as :. The only thing I started trying to use a normal user was when I thought that it would be consistent for a system to use them instead. But now I'm back to using UID 0 as the default user again, and I can now really say that it doesn't really matter anymore.

It now makes me wonder what the original design of UNIX actually was. If restricted multi-user system was a later feature then I find my self more correct now. Using restricted users is just a tradition but is more of an option for the user.

Running default as UID 0 actually has good reasons but proving them doesn't really give much meaning since it depends on one's philosophy and perception. And yes everyone has their options. Some find traditional security necessary, while some no longer find it really helpful. I on the other hand is a type of user who would prefer to have the quickest accessibility on tasks at the expense of unneeded security. Of course I would only apply that to personal desktop systems.

This is what I use to play my music files by the way. And it's got everything I need, mostly at least. It's meant to run on virtual consoles or terminals. PlayShell could run on most systems where bash could run and where there are at least one player that could play the files, including remote systems through an ssh session or conservative systems like Live systems. It handles players that run on virtual consoles and terminals. Unfortunately it seems like PulseAudio is still not that friendly on terminal based players. And PlayShell could run fine with PulseAudio but I still find it (PlayShell with alsamixer) more configurable and easier to handle without it (PulseAudio). Or is there already a good PulseAudio mixer for the console?

http://sf.net/projects/playshell/
 
Old 08-12-2013, 03:42 PM   #23
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
I just hope that you don't run applications that are connecting to the net (browsers, chat clients, torrent software, ...) as UID 0, other than that, it is up to you to deny yourself basic security and none of my business. I personally find convenience never a good reason to abstain from security.
To each his own, but there are basic and well known principles of security, like the principle of least privilege: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_privilege
 
Old 08-12-2013, 06:58 PM   #24
konsolebox
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Distribution: Gentoo, Slackware, LFS
Posts: 2,248
Blog Entries: 8

Rep: Reputation: 235Reputation: 235Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I just hope that you don't run applications that are connecting to the net (browsers, chat clients, torrent software, ...) as UID 0
Of course, by default unless I see the application unlikely to be breached by any possible cause, or at least it's unlikely for the task or for the situation.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] Problem with Pulse Audio codeman1234 Linux - Software 15 01-13-2012 12:00 PM
[SOLVED] Pulse Audio Problem vivanguarda Slackware 9 01-23-2011 01:02 PM
Does anyone here install Pulse Audio in Xfce? joutlancpa Slackware 2 04-28-2009 02:37 PM
pulse audio sulekha Ubuntu 1 02-10-2009 06:48 PM
no sound with Pulse-audio and xmms Brynn Linux - Software 2 12-06-2007 05:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration