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Old 03-02-2013, 12:46 PM   #16
shivaa
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Quote:
And Linux is NOT based on Unix at all, but is Unix-LIKE. Read the Wikipedia entry as was previously posted.
What's difference between Unix-like and Unix-based ?

To me, it sounds better to use Unix-based OS rather than using Unix-like, because all it has derived from Unix and somewhere inherited concepts from Unix itself.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #17
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In his book "Just For Fun", when talking about making Linux POSIX compliant, Linus says "I also gleaned some system calls from Andrew Tanenbaum's book and a few others" (my emphasis). To my mind that means at the most there are a few system calls that are based upon Minix, and in my opinion a few system calls is not the OS. Linus also says that Minix memory management was done simplistically (as was Mac OS) which suggests to me that the memory management is completely different.
Andrew Taanenbaum criticised Linux's monolithic kernel as opposed to his OSs microkernel approach. This suggests to me that he didn't think of it as having much in common with Minix.
I read the passage you posted as meaning that Minix was used to develop Linux on as it was the OS which Linus was using at the time he was developing Linux.

Last edited by 273; 03-02-2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Typo's.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 01:01 PM   #18
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaa View Post
What's difference between Unix-like and Unix-based ?

To me, it sounds better to use Unix-based OS rather than using Unix-like, because all it has derived from Unix and somewhere inherited concepts from Unix itself.
Unix-based means coming from the same code base as Unix. Well, it is a little more complicated what with certified Unix but in this context that will do.
Unix-like means behaving like Unix but being written from scratch and not as a development from Unix itself.
It's believed by many that Apple's OSX can legitimately be described as Unix-based because it can trace it's legacy back to Unix. Linux, however, was written by a guy in Finland from scratch.
 
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #19
jpollard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbiser View Post
I can see how Linux is UNIX like, though it isn't descended from UNIX; however, I would like to see proof that is from somewhere other than Wikipedia, Wikipedia is good, but can be unreliable at times. This chart is from GNU Linux Advanced Administration from the Free Technology Academy. I think that the companion to this book is on LQ's home page.
From the people under discussion:

http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html
 
Old 03-02-2013, 04:17 PM   #20
jpollard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaa View Post
What's difference between Unix-like and Unix-based ?

To me, it sounds better to use Unix-based OS rather than using Unix-like, because all it has derived from Unix and somewhere inherited concepts from Unix itself.
Money.

To be UNIX requires passing a validation test series and paying a fee to the X/Open group (now called The Open Group: http://www.opengroup.org/).

To be UNIX like is relatively easy - it just uses some of the concepts from UNIX itself.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #21
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpollard View Post
Money.

To be UNIX requires passing a validation test series and paying a fee to the X/Open group (now called The Open Group: http://www.opengroup.org/).

To be UNIX like is relatively easy - it just uses some of the concepts from UNIX itself.
Personally I'd say that's the definition of Unix not Unix based. To me at least Unix-based means developed from a Unix and may or may not be Unix (e.g. OSX and BSD).
If the definition of Unix-based is "Certified Unix" then, surely, that's the same as saying Unix-based means Unix?
 
Old 03-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #22
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbiser View Post
I can see how Linux is UNIX like, though it isn't descended from UNIX; however, I would like to see proof that is from somewhere other than Wikipedia, Wikipedia is good, but can be unreliable at times. This chart is from GNU Linux Advanced Administration from the Free Technology Academy. I think that the companion to this book is on LQ's home page.
Just ask Linus Torvalds himself. As he stated in the history of Linux (written by himself):
Quote:
no minix code has been used
 
Old 03-03-2013, 07:00 AM   #23
jpollard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Personally I'd say that's the definition of Unix not Unix based. To me at least Unix-based means developed from a Unix and may or may not be Unix (e.g. OSX and BSD).
If the definition of Unix-based is "Certified Unix" then, surely, that's the same as saying Unix-based means Unix?
No. "UNIX based" says that it was derived from a certified UNIX. To that end, it is allowed to say AIX is UNIX based, if the newer version has not yet passed the certification.

It is a trademark issue, not logic. UNIX is trademarked and there are only certain legal uses of the term. Saying something is UNIX based when it is not derived from certified UNIX weakens the trademark.

Saying something is UNIX like, states that it is NOT derived from UNIX, but for the most part looks like it.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 07:32 AM   #24
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpollard View Post
No. "UNIX based" says that it was derived from a certified UNIX. To that end, it is allowed to say AIX is UNIX based, if the newer version has not yet passed the certification.

It is a trademark issue, not logic. UNIX is trademarked and there are only certain legal uses of the term. Saying something is UNIX based when it is not derived from certified UNIX weakens the trademark.

Saying something is UNIX like, states that it is NOT derived from UNIX, but for the most part looks like it.
That's what I said " developed from a Unix and may or may not be Unix (e.g. OSX and BSD).".
 
Old 03-03-2013, 08:01 AM   #25
jpollard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
That's what I said " developed from a Unix and may or may not be Unix (e.g. OSX and BSD).".
It is never a "may be UNIX"... that would be treading on the trademark.

In the normal terminology you would be right. It just can't be said in official publications.

I believe the legal interpretation (IANAL) is that if something is "UNIX based" then it includes all of UNIX... plus a little extra, and has not yet passed another certification.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 08:15 AM   #26
Randicus Draco Albus
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Personally, I would have avoided a debate and advised the OP to do what I did when I decided to try Linux and wanted to learn a little more, including how to get it. I did it the hard (or easy?) way. I did an internet search using a single search word: Linux. One of the results on the first page was Linux.org, which seemed like a logical place to start. Lots of useful information and links there, including this subject.

Out of curiosity, I just fired up Start Page and tried two searches.
"History of Linux" - 26 million results.
"What is Linux" (the title of this thread) - 100 million hits.

With both searches, the first page was filled with good places to get information, including the subjects mentioned by various people in the thread. True, I am a cantankerous fart and this is a friendly board, but sometimes the best answer is, "Search the web."

I hope I did offend any of the posters in this thread, but I do have an abrasive personality.

Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus; 03-03-2013 at 08:16 AM.
 
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #27
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpollard View Post
It is never a "may be UNIX"... that would be treading on the trademark.

In the normal terminology you would be right. It just can't be said in official publications.

I believe the legal interpretation (IANAL) is that if something is "UNIX based" then it includes all of UNIX... plus a little extra, and has not yet passed another certification.
OSX is a Unix, but it is more often referred to as Unix-based, whereas BSD is not a Unix but is Unix-based. That's what I meant.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 12:54 PM   #28
jlinkels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
Unwarranted, unnecessary and not helpful.
Please remain on topic or keep yourself from posting,
TIA.
This is another one. The OP appears, makes one post and disappears never to be seen again for 10 days. Nevertheless there are 26 answers.

I think initiation and response are swapped here. The OP uses LQ as a substitute for Google to and advertently or inadvertently pulls some tens of reactions. That is OK with me if such behaviour is within the LQ rules. But I think it goes too far to reprimand genuine members to post a nonsense reply on a nonsense question of a non-genuine member. Had you really expected someone to write a well-formed informative answer which positively contributes to the discussion?

This looks to me as a home owner being convicted for abusing a burglar entering his house and trying to rape his wife.

jlinkels

Last edited by jlinkels; 03-03-2013 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 08:53 PM   #29
chrism01
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It loosely divides into 3 groups:

1. Certified UNIX (see X/Open link etc) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification

2. UNIX derived ie UNIX derived code: may or may not be UNIX certified http://bhami.com/rosetta.html

3. UNIX-like ie not UNIX code derived and (usually) not certified either
http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/u...0/gldt1210.png
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/sof...enguin-1113914

FYI: Linux is UNIX-like

Last edited by chrism01; 03-03-2013 at 08:55 PM.
 
Old 03-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #30
jamison20000e
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Talking

Awesome!
Plus: anything a box can do++
(and more likely cheaper, with greater payoffs)!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 03-03-2013 at 10:23 PM. Reason: yum * ham \link ;)
 
  


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