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Old 09-28-2006, 01:04 PM   #31
extrasolar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
Your post was not a private message, it was a post in a publically accessible forum. What you write on here is talking to everyone. As a member of this forum, I have just as much right to read and contribute to it as anyone else.

If you object to anyone except the one user you imagine you are talking to reading or responding to what you write, then you shouldn't write it in a public forum. If you want to communicate intimately with one user, then there are other ways in which you can do that.
OK I'm not going to get into an argument over this. I apologise if I sound arrogant, dogmatic or patronising; I'm neither of those. I don't know a terrible amount about Linux so I don't claim to be a "know it all".
 
Old 09-28-2006, 02:10 PM   #32
weibullguy
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Back to the OP's question, didn't see anyone mention that the CLI often gives error messages (or more verbose error messages) than the GUI equivalent.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 03:19 PM   #33
DotHQ
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Command line also lends itself to scripting. By learning to use the command line your halfway there to putting your commands into scripts and run them via cron automatically.

While I suppose you could get by with only a gui in Linux I can't imagine why one would want to do that.
My wife will use one of my Linux boxes but she only uses it for internet access and majong. She does not need, nor care about the CLI. If you admin your own system at least try the CLI. I think you'd be glad you did.

* a command that will help you in CLI:
apropos anyword
this can help show you what to 'man' which will help explain many things about your Linux system. If man is not familar to you at the CLI type man man.
(man = manual, man man tells you how to use the online Linux manual.) Hope that helps someone.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 03:45 PM   #34
Dragineez
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The CLI, It's What's For Dinner

Actually, the whole point of this thread is a little bit sad. In all honesty, with vbs and the windows scripting host, the CLI under MS Windows can be pretty darned powerful too. But even many self styled "Windows Gurus" know little or nothing about it. Bash is a Windows command prompt - squared.

Sorry, I just think it a little sad the question was asked at all. It speaks of a complete and utter reliance on what is painted on the screen rather than what is going on under the hood.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 07:53 PM   #35
jstephens84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Actually, the whole point of this thread is a little bit sad. In all honesty, with vbs and the windows scripting host, the CLI under MS Windows can be pretty darned powerful too. But even many self styled "Windows Gurus" know little or nothing about it. Bash is a Windows command prompt - squared.

Sorry, I just think it a little sad the question was asked at all. It speaks of a complete and utter reliance on what is painted on the screen rather than what is going on under the hood.
I would disagree. The user had as stated is new to linux. So in turn wanted to know why to use the cli when things can be done on the gui. Therefore we are all giving him reasons or personal expierences on why we think the cli is better or even worth using.

@arow that is a great reason. Can't tell everyone how many times the cli gave a better error message than what was displayed in the gui.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 08:31 PM   #36
sundialsvcs
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It's worth mentioning .. Windows has a command-line, too! And there are a lot of things that you basically cannot do without it.

Personally, I find the reliance on the command-line somewhat annoying also. But there are some good projects, like linuxconf, that make many routine administrative tasks point-and-click.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 08:56 PM   #37
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckdog
I am an uber-noob, but am wondering why doing so much stuff in linux uses the command line.
That's like asking why top end sports cars have manual transmissions.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 09:31 PM   #38
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_kewpie
I fscking hate KDE, i fscking hate debian. i am anot about to tell a debian/KDE user how to navigate their pointy clicky world that i don't know to achieve menial tasks. as long as you're not going too fasr into debians "twists" i can however tell you how to do that very simply here on LQ via a gui. which is easier to read...
Well, the world would be a very boring place if we all liked the same. But I honestly don't see any logic in your Debian comment.
Do you mind explaining what you meant with it?

Debian actually made it a lot more easy to have a fully working (and modern) OS without the need for X (using apt-lib).

I like Slackware just as much, but getting a fully functional minimal system with it is much harder. I guess Gentoo is more Debian like, but I personally hate the idea of spending that much time using automated source installers (thats one of the reasons why I left BSD for Linux).

I admin (and have used) many debian systems, most of them don't even have/had X.

I do agree about KDE though (did you know Linus doesn't. He feels that a GUI does need to be able to do everything, as KDE aims to do. Luckily we don't all have to agree with Linus either).

Last edited by jens; 09-28-2006 at 10:03 PM.
 
Old 09-28-2006, 11:42 PM   #39
Dragineez
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Between The Lines

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstephens84
I would disagree. The user had as stated is new to linux.
But probably NOT new to Windows - where the command line remains a complete mystery to him. Much of that knowledge does conceptually translate from Windows to Linux. I bemoan the lack of that skill in both environments.

I can't even count the number of times I've freaked out co-workers by launching a GUI app from the command line feeding it command line parameters that it then executes. These are technical people that don't have a clue what I've just done. Network admins of very large enterprise networks that are astounded that you can do complex Active Directory Service mods with a script. That had no idea that there was even any way other than through their admin gui crapplet.

Ah well, so few know the old ways...

Quote:
"This were the old way, it say six cadem high.

Ahhhh, but take back one cadem to honor the hebrew god whose ark this is."
 
Old 09-28-2006, 11:47 PM   #40
jstephens84
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There is just something about that pitch black screen of the cli that I really enjoy more than a gui. Maybe it's that I can use it as a programming language. Or maybe when people see if they run and scream for their lives. I guess when I have a terminal open It just seems like I have a lot of power in my hands waiting to be grapsed and used to any way I see fit.
 
Old 09-29-2006, 12:03 AM   #41
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
I can't even count the number of times I've freaked out co-workers by launching a GUI app from the command line feeding it command line parameters that it then executes. These are technical people that don't have a clue what I've just done. Network admins of very large enterprise networks that are astounded that you can do complex Active Directory Service mods with a script. That had no idea that there was even any way other than through their admin gui crapplet.
How does one get to become a network admin without knowing how to use a command line?

AFAIK, there aren't many industrial routers which have GUIs.

I find it sad that Windows worshippers don't even know the full power of their own OS. Little wonder that they freak out with Linux!

BTW - did you know that the Vista betas still come with edlin? There are also many other little DOS knick-knacks which are included as well. I don't know if they'll be in the final version, but considering that they made it this far, I'd be amazed if they aren't.
 
Old 09-29-2006, 07:52 AM   #42
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Another BIG plus of the CLI is history. You sure can't do that with GUI. With history you can see what commands you've run, and run any of them again. Very simple, yet powerful.

Both Dos and Unix started out as CLI. Unix / Linux never ever tried to leave the CLI behind. Windows did, and brought it back in what seemed to me as an afterthought. I do not know Windows Scripting Host well, but the little I did know about it left me frustrated.
 
Old 09-29-2006, 08:18 AM   #43
hand of fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotHQ
While I suppose you could get by with only a gui in Linux I can't imagine why one would want to do that.
My wife will use one of my Linux boxes but she only uses it for internet access and majong. She does not need, nor care about the CLI.
I think you've answered your own question.
 
Old 09-29-2006, 09:14 AM   #44
Caesar Tjalbo
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Quote:
Windows PowerShell, previously Microsoft Shell or MSH (codenamed Monad) is a command line interface (CLI) shell and scripting language product being developed by Microsoft. The interface is similar to Unix shells, but the product is based on object-oriented programming and the Microsoft .NET framework, and is highly extensible.

Windows PowerShell Release Candidate 2 is available for download from the Microsoft web site.

Microsoft originally intended to launch PowerShell along with Windows Vista, but later defined a separate release schedule for PowerShell.
(Where Wikipedia got this information from is unknown to me, the MS marketing department for all I care.)
It shows there's still demand for a CLI, even for desktop admins
 
Old 09-29-2006, 09:45 AM   #45
ethics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hand of fate
I think you've answered your own question.
I imagine the developers weren't targetting the same demographics that his wife shares.. (no offense to mateys wife).

Whereas GUI centric OS' like windows are aimed at EVERYBODY (power users, frequent users, joe sixpack, my grandma) i think Linux/Unix/Variants of are more targetted to advanced users (both in concepts and ability to learn/adapt in the environment). I am of the firm belief that the CLI offers infinite more power, but not everyone WANTS or NEEDS that power.

I've been following this thread and i summarise as you not wanting to do so much in the CLI... that's fine, but asking why Linux has to do it that way, and perhaps (in my perception) suggesting it's a problem/obstacle/oversight is a tad narrow minded. The world is full of people that say why does x use z and not y. I say because it wasn't intended to, you would rather adapt something to your needs fine, but that's down to whoever is developing it,


The above is a tiny fraction of this arguement, and i've tried not to re-hash others points. I also think the answer has it's roots in tradition and culture of the OS' development, but thats a broader scope than i have time for whilst hiding from the boss.
 
  


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