LinuxQuestions.org
Register a domain and help support LQ
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 01-17-2006, 03:13 PM   #1
yandrson
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Rep: Reputation: 0
Question want to redo linux install, I put it on too small partition


In short
I had XP on one disk, tried to get Debian on a second disk, but it was too small and didn't get all the packages that I want on it, so now I am trying to find out how to redo it or fix it.

What I had originally

A 13GB Western Digital disk with an XP and a app/files partition. There was also a cool IBM hdd with 20GB that I also used for files. Recently I finally got a new power supply because a while back some lightening fried it. It also turned out the IBM hdd went from 20 to 2 GB (bad sectors I guess).

What I wanted
To put Debian 3.1 on what I thought was a 20GB disk. And also use a boot loader to switch between XP and Debian. I chose the current Debian version available in a small package so I could do a network install for the other parts.

First attempt
->
I realized 2.1GB wasn't enough but I wanted to give it a shot. I was looking at debian . org /releases/stable/i386/apcs03 .html.en and found that I would need
1852MB plus 48MB of space, to handle Desktop and Web server tasks. Debian installed ok, but I got a message saying that all the packages didn't install properly. I played around a bit and found that vi wouldn't save because there was not enough disk space.

->I cleared away about 4gigs from the 13gig disk and now I want to somehow redo the install or fix it so that I have space to do what I want. At some point later I'll buy a new disk to put linux on too.

IDE1 master (hda) - 13.6 GB WDC WD136AA
#1 primary 8.1 GB ntfs
#2 primary 1.5 GB ntfs
pri/log 4.0 GB FREE SPACE
IDE1 slave (hdb) - 2.1 GB IBM-DTLA-305020
#1 primary 732.0 MB ext3
#5 logical 115.1 MB swap
#6 logical 1.3 GB ext3

Some possible options
->Try to pop in the Debian cd again and see what happens. That's what I'm in the middle of right now and I read that the installer will not overwrite previous linux system files. I see the linux parititions that I already installed (the output is as above) and I would like to somehow try to make the 'logical' partition in the free space of the other disk. I thought the 2.1 was enough until the logical part was placed, and is barely even used as I checked on partition magic from XP.

->Install Linux again by deleting the linux partition from within XP and editing GRUB text. And the second time around just somehow (dont know how) tell linux to put the system over the entirety of the 2.1 and put my files on the free space on the other disk. But is this a waste of time if I can just somehow finish installing the packages I wasn't able to fit with the net install?

->I would have put Debian in the free space at the end of the WD drive, but I remember MBR's have to be located within the first .... of a disk.

thanks,

Mike
 
Old 01-17-2006, 03:40 PM   #2
pixellany
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Distribution: Arch/XFCE
Posts: 17,802

Rep: Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728
A lot of work that may have to be re-done....
First, if the 20GB really is only 10% useable due to bad sectors, then it has only one home (generally circular, 1-2 feet in height)

A new 40GB drive will be very cheap and will give you an order of magnitude more flexibility.
 
Old 01-17-2006, 04:01 PM   #3
yandrson
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Hey pixellany, you know what I'm ordering another drive today, but I actually have to work on this assignment that I need linux for. When I do get a new drive in, btw, do you suppose it is wiser to continue with my 13GB and a new, say 100GB or so drive?

I was thinking that it should be faster, right? I don't really understand, how can people have multiple bootable systems on one big drive if the boot portion has to be at the beginning. Does GRUB or LILO solve this problem? Don't boot loaders only send the head to the boot portion of some x system? But if that boot portion isn't in the beginning, then it wouldn't work. would it?

I thought Debian can't install over existing Debian installations, but I just tried that and I guess it worked (so far). Do you suppose I should be able to somehow modify the entry I have in GRUB that is pointing to the old Debian install so as to reuse it for the new one? The new one is larger, but starts at the same spot. Does GRUB keep track of the size of a partition or only the beginning?

After I post this, I will choose to say 'NO' to a question during the install that asks whether I should place GRUB on my drive. It's already there so I figure I can modify it instead of placing it again. I am guessing GRUB should boot but if the entry for Debian is wrong I can try to modify it and hopefully get linux to boot.
 
Old 01-17-2006, 04:07 PM   #4
yandrson
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
ha well the installation didn't give me that option, so I chose to overwrite the GRUB entry. Well it booted fine so I guess its ok.

So now ill post if I have more issues. But my next problem will be to try to fit the packages on that 2.1gig system (yes ill get a new disk soon but for now...) and try to install this package called Nachos and get that to work.
 
Old 01-17-2006, 05:55 PM   #5
bulliver
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Edmonton AB, Canada
Distribution: Gentoo x86; Gentoo PPC; Gentoo Sparc64; FreeBSD; OS X; Solaris
Posts: 3,731
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 68
Quote:
I was thinking that it should be faster, right? I don't really understand, how can people have multiple bootable systems on one big drive if the boot portion has to be at the beginning. Does GRUB or LILO solve this problem? Don't boot loaders only send the head to the boot portion of some x system? But if that boot portion isn't in the beginning, then it wouldn't work. would it?
Personally, I would never use lilo. Grub is so much more flexible. Boot partition does _not_ have to be first. This is an old BIOS limitation which grub can work around. My main rig boots Gentoo, SuSe, Slackware and FreeBSD. I use grub to chainload FreeBSD, but for all the linux distros I use a single boot partition for _all_ the different kernels, and all but the main gentoo install have empty /boot directories. Because of the way grub works, you don't have to have the kernel in the same filesystem as the distro you want to boot, but of course you could do that if you wanted. I just prefer to have one place for _all_ my kernels.
 
Old 01-17-2006, 05:57 PM   #6
Fireball7
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Distribution: Slackware 10.2, Ubuntu 6.06
Posts: 46

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
how can people have multiple bootable systems on one big drive if the boot portion has to be at the beginning. Does GRUB or LILO solve this problem?
When I installed FC4 it gave me the option of either placing GRUB in the MBR (Master Boot Record) OR the first sector of my boot partition (which is what i idid, since windows will not work properly [on the same disk] if the MBR is overwritten). And personally, I have a 100GB HDD in my laptop w/ an XP/FC4 Dual Boot which coexist nicely (used partition magick 8). I would get XP and fedora set up on a really nice new HDD (at least a 40GB, as previously suggested, though I don't know what your needs are in either os) then plug in the 13 gig so that you can boot off of your new primary and move the files from your 13, then use it as spare space.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.
 
Old 01-18-2006, 12:10 AM   #7
yandrson
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulliver
you don't have to have the kernel in the same filesystem as the distro you want to boot,
When do you choose where you put your kernel? Are you saying your Suse and freeBSD kernels are placed somewhere separately, huh? So the kernel is just some code, right, which makes up how the system talks to i/o devices and memory. Ok, so I guess that code can be wherever you want as long as user processes know where to reach it. I don't undrstand the advantages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireball7
get XP and fedora set up on a really nice new HDD (at least a 40GB, as previously suggested, though I don't know what your needs are in either os) then plug in the 13 gig so that you can boot off of your new primary and move the files from your 13, then use it as spare space.
Okay, Fireball, so you mean to keep xp and debian on that same big disk and keep the 13GB for additional space. Ok so then if I had a big misconception about where I can place an OS, then until I get that new hdd, I would like to place Debian onto the last 4 gigs of that disk. But you know P Magic especially mentions that a partition is non bootable if it starts too far into the disk. That's why I'm confused.

I would love to do this, because I've been running more and more bare installs today and for the third time I got the 'there is not enough space on your disk' message, so I have to try again. If you guys say GRUB lets you put Debian anywhere, thats cool
 
Old 01-18-2006, 07:17 AM   #8
bulliver
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Edmonton AB, Canada
Distribution: Gentoo x86; Gentoo PPC; Gentoo Sparc64; FreeBSD; OS X; Solaris
Posts: 3,731
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 68
Quote:
When do you choose where you put your kernel? Are you saying your Suse and freeBSD kernels are placed somewhere separately, huh?
Yes. FreeBSD boots differently than Linux. The FreeBSD filesystem is UFS, so you cannot put a FreeBSD kernel on a Linux filesystem. However, all my Linux kernels are in the same partition.

Quote:
I guess that code can be wherever you want as long as user processes know where to reach it. I don't undrstand the advantages.
User processes? No. That has nothing to do with it, a kernel is just a file on disk like every other file. Grub is smart enough to boot it, as long as you are smart enough to write a correct grub.conf file...to point grub to your kernel.
 
Old 01-18-2006, 07:45 AM   #9
enemorales
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Santiago, Chile
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 410

Rep: Reputation: 30
I can't understand why 2Gb aren't enough. How many packages are you installing?? If I had an urgent need to have Debian running and I was waiting for a new harddisk anyway, I would install only what I need to solve my problems and that is (all this assuming that I trusted the harddisk with the 2Gb, which I probably wouldn't, but that's another story).

If you are installing only what you need and you still need more than 2Gb, then I would suggest another approach. Make a minimum installation (do not check those Desktop/Server/... options you have in the installer after the first boot). Install some packages first and then remove the .debs (don't remember exactly, but I'm sure that apt should have an option to clean the local files it downloaded --google may help on this). Then you can continue with another set of packages, and so on. I'm sure that with 2Gb you can have really, REALLY many things installed in your system.

Well, of course there is still the problem of the swap partition. If you haven't too much RAM and you are planning to run intensive processes, then you may need a lot of swap space, but then your new harddisk may arrive before you finish your work... I see you are using about 128Mb, if that's ok for your plans, then it makes not a big difference. Anyway, since you are in urgent need, I would recommend you to create only ONE BIG partition for Debian and not 2 of them. Anyway all this is temporary, until you super new harddisk arrives.

(edit: I didn't see you had 4Gb already free in the first drive)

You can also partition those 4Gb at the end of the first drive and tell Debian to use them to put part of the system there. In that way you shouldn't need to reinstall.


HTH!!

Last edited by enemorales; 01-18-2006 at 07:48 AM.
 
Old 01-18-2006, 07:46 AM   #10
Fireball7
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Distribution: Slackware 10.2, Ubuntu 6.06
Posts: 46

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
But you know P Magic especially mentions that a partition is non bootable if it starts too far into the disk. That's why I'm confused.
Well I only had about 30GB free on my HDD when I installed Linux. And like bulliver pointed out

Quote:
Boot partition does _not_ have to be first. This is an old BIOS limitation which grub can work around.
As far as what P magic shows, my winxp is the first 80 gigs, then a 100mb /boot partition and at the end is my FC4 partition with a little over ten gigs. Make a /boot partition and then make an extended partition (which will be your [basically] separate hdd for linux, containing all other linux-based partitions for your distro).

Any case, I have heard the boot thing as well, but GRUB works well for me in this situation, seemingly bypassing it. Best bet, just try it, or (assuming you have the time) play around with the installs some.

Here is an interesting how-to, just as an fyi:
http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux...w2k-HOWTO.html

Anywho, I hope that helps, and good luck with it.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
partition mount redo 1speedjb Linux - Newbie 4 01-05-2005 09:38 AM
Redo Linux Partitions & Clean Format Thanatos Linux - General 2 12-22-2004 01:05 PM
Want to put my whooole 25GB linux partition on another hard drive... needs help Fear58 Linux - General 1 07-07-2004 09:05 PM
Damn Small Linux install?!? nub47 Debian 3 12-16-2003 06:45 PM
Linux put the swap partition on my second HD. Don't want it there. rdaves@earthlink.net Linux - General 3 09-21-2001 08:42 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration