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Old 05-11-2004, 05:21 AM   #1
sbogus
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Unable to Install SuSE 9.0 on two disk system


Hi ya,
First I wish to thank whom may pay attention to this newbie question, surely duscussed 1000s of times.

Brief resumee of what went wrong with my SuSE 9.0 Installation:

I have, after recent hardware upgrade, a Athlon 1.7 GHz, 768 MB RAM, CD-ROM+DVD Burner + 1x 40 GB HDD and 1x 160 GB HDD.

Before this upgrade (it includes the second 160 GB HDD, the RAM and the DVD Burner) I used dual-boot system on the 40 GB HDD consisting of WinXP + SuSE 7.3, this works even now without any problems. As the worm Sasser killed my XP I decided to change it from XP to Win2k and to update my SuSE to at least 9.0.

The problem:
I decided to install the 9.0 version on the second HDD (hdb) and then after successful installation to reuse the whole hda for the Win2k installation (currently there's the 7.3 instalation and the dead corpse of WinXP). The installation packages of 9.0 are prepared on a mount point in my current 7.3 installation. The YaST2 setup works fine till the point of first reboot to finish the installation. Both GRUB and LILO fail to boot the installation from the hdb, furthermore GRUB just hangs with the error "GRUB: Hard Disk Error..." and this even the boot loaders are installed in the MBR. I've tried to put them in the boot partition of hdb but this also went wrong. Even specifying from the BIOS setup to boot from the second HDD (Primarys boot device is HDD-1), even then the installation will not boot.

So, I used the Install CD (burned with the boot.iso image) to boot for the first time the new installation of SuSE 9.0 on the hdb drive. It went also wrong, because the kernel failed to load many modules (modprobe complains about missing "something" and "could not find something"), the peripherials failed to load too (no Ethernet, no USB -> no IP, no Mouse, no TCP/IP, no Internet)
The strange case is that the YaST2 has recognized my hardware prety well and all was functional and operational while I was setting up the packages and preparing the installations, but during the first boot almost nothing was recognized by the loaded kernel...

Please, If anyone has a tip or help suggestion, to tell me...
Many thanks in advance!

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
Old 05-11-2004, 07:17 AM   #2
JZL240I-U
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I just installed SuSE 9.0 and had similar problems due to a mangled MBR and partition table. I used
Code:
dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/hdb bs=1024 count=1024
to "level" MBR and the partition table in the end.

Be warned: I destroyed my whole setup and had to rebuild from scratch due to carelessnes. So make sure you chose the right hd to write the zeroes to!

Addendum: I had problems installing GRUB in the Yast2-routine until I retried (up to five times I think) and it worked -- never kenw why...
 
Old 05-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #3
sbogus
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Thanks JZL240I-U for the replay,

... okay, currently the hdb device is empty, just labeled as "msdos". I assume executing this dd-code will not harm the installations on device hda, but... I do not understand how this will help to "level" the MBR, wich resides in the block 0 of hda?! If my previous installations doots properly, shouldn't this mean that the MBR is already okay?! And furthermore why both boot loaders fail (in different ways and probably for different reasons) to excecute?!

The second, and more important for me, question were then, what goes wrong in the kernel, during the first boot, so that it fails to load almost any important peripherial module? YaST2 recognizes and uses all peripherials very good, the kernel can't do this...

Where did you install your SuSE? On hda or on hdb (in case you have these two HDDs)?! Where put you the boot loader?! I've read this article grub-w2k-HOWTO, where the author states that the GRUB should not be installed in the MBR.

Kind regards,
sbogus

Last edited by sbogus; 05-11-2004 at 09:07 AM.
 
Old 05-11-2004, 09:24 AM   #4
JZL240I-U
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
... okay, currently the hdb device is empty, just labeled as "msdos". I assume executing this dd-code will not harm the installations on device hda, but... I do not understand how this will help to "level" the MBR, wich resides in the block 0 of hda?! If my previous installations doots properly, shouldn't this mean that the MBR is already okay?! And furthermore why both boot loaders fail (in different ways and probably for different reasons) to excecute?!
My error. Of course dd will leave hda alone and thus the MBR. (you could switch hardware though, and then your now hdb-drive would have to provide the MBR).

My suggestion just writes binary zeroes to the first MByte of the device selected (hdb), thus producing a defined starting condition (and yes, I used the dd-command on my hda -- beware! -- but I knew what would happen).

your MBR is probably okay.

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
The second, and more important for me, question were then, what goes wrong in the kernel, during the first boot, so that it fails to load almost any important peripherial module? YaST2 recognizes and uses all peripherials very good, the kernel can't do this...
To my (sketchy) experience some problem with the partition table...

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
Where did you install your SuSE? On hda or on hdb (in case you have these two HDDs)?! Where put you the boot loader?! I've read this article grub-w2k-HOWTO, where the author states that the GRUB should not be installed in the MBR.
I installed boot on hdb3 and root on hdb5 (rest in LVM). I boot from MBR thus hda with GRUB, never had any problem with that, installing GRUB itself from SuSE gave the above mentioned problems. (BTW. SuSE offers an option to rescue the old MBR and to make an entry in the boot menu to start from that ... so, if you want to be sure...

Last edited by JZL240I-U; 05-11-2004 at 09:31 AM.
 
Old 05-11-2004, 09:53 AM   #5
sbogus
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RE: Unable to Install SuSE 9.0 on two disk system

Hmmm...
I notice that the YaST2 installer does not offer to me the possibility to create a /boot partition...

When I choose to install SuSE on device hdb, then it offers me to make two partitions:

Minor Type Size Mount point File system
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hdb1 swap 1GB /swap swap
hdb2 native 156,7GB / reiser

I have accepted this as base configuration and have tried to make my own partitioning based on the suggested one. It looks like follows:

Minor Type Size Mount point File system
-------------------------------------------------------------------
hdb1 swap 1GB /swap swap
hdb2 native 40GB / reiser
hdb3 extended 112,7 GB
hdb5 native 55GB /usr/extended ext2

This configuration sucks! It will not work...
There's no /boot partition at all, nor I have this option when I make my own partitioning.

Could you suggest for me a partition separation for the hdb disk, so that at least the kernel booting works?! I still have the possibility to make a boot disk and to boot the installation from there.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
Old 05-11-2004, 10:04 AM   #6
JZL240I-U
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It certainly does. Just don't chose Standard Installation (there are 2 more like "building from previous system" and "building from scratch / experts") or chose in the next menu "change proposed structure" (looks like you did already -- boot will be somwhere under / then as a dirctory!). Also, use Reiser only, it is much faster later during boot.

You'll find the possibility to change settings after a double click on the partition, or use the appropriate button (edit partition). In the new popup you can chose mount points / formatting / file type as well. Just experiment "back" always clears previous work .

You can make /boot with a sensible size too, just did it last friday. Just get the appropriate popup (Bearbeiten ).

Last edited by JZL240I-U; 05-11-2004 at 10:07 AM.
 
Old 05-11-2004, 10:21 AM   #7
sbogus
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Thanks,

okay, I can imagine, that the missing /boot partition could mess up the kernel booting, because in that case the kernel will (probably ? ) boot directly from the root partition. Do you mean for proper kernel booting, it is better idea to use /boot partition?! I've read in the HOWTOs that a /boot partition is not necessary for proper booting...

Anyway, I'll give it just one more try to install SuSE on my hdb. I'll come back with the results

Thanks!

Kind regards,
sbogus

PS: Can I contact yu more directly, via ICQ or MSN for example?!
Thanks in advance.
 
Old 05-11-2004, 12:07 PM   #8
crazibri
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I've installed SuSE dual boot with WinXP and I made partitions for SuSE. One Ext2, One 50MB Ext2 (for boot), and one 550mb swap. Everything runs pretty well for the most part.
As far as you XP goes, the Sasser worm is easy to get rid of. If you go into your task manager its "avserve" in there. You can end process on it and then go to symantec.com to download the virus removal. You should be able to remove Sasser without it ruining your XP.
 
Old 05-12-2004, 01:49 AM   #9
JZL240I-U
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
... I can imagine, that the missing /boot partition could mess up the kernel booting, because in that case the kernel will (probably ? ) boot directly from the root partition....
That's not what I meant. In standard configuration SuSE will make just 2 partitions, /swap and /. Then /boot is only a directory below / and works as well as a partition.

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
Do you mean for proper kernel booting, it is better idea to use /boot partition?! I've read in the HOWTOs that a /boot partition is not necessary for proper booting...
See above , yes, as a partition unnecessary, but as separate directory indispensable.

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
Anyway, I'll give it just one more try to install SuSE on my hdb. I'll come back with the results ...
Please do, these threads are also information for others and they would be unfinished without final results.

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
PS: Can I contact yu more directly, via ICQ or MSN for example?!
Thanks in advance.
I would mail you my phone or e-mail, you just have disabled your e-mail services on LQ.org you can change that in the user panel...

Good luck .

Last edited by JZL240I-U; 05-12-2004 at 01:51 AM.
 
Old 05-13-2004, 04:30 AM   #10
sbogus
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Angry Some problems solved, others popped up!

Hi buddies,

so this going to be my resumee on the past two or three days of battle with the SuSE 9.0 instalaltion.

First of all, I got It working! , yes, all modprobe errors and peripherial fails are gone. For the missing modules I've just symlink-ed the kernel-specific "2.4.21-144" folder to the one requested by the boot loader - the one named "2.4.21-144-default". For the peripehrial fails it was critical to boot the installation's own kernel and not the one from the start CD, because the one in the start CD does not have any peripehials compiled in int, but rather than initializes separate modules when spawning the YaST2 setup application. That's the big difference! So now I have working Ethernet, PCI, USB, DHCP, DSL and whatever is comming thereafter. That were the good news, now continue with the bad ones...

So there still be a problem with the bootloaders. According to the documentation of GRUB and LILO I relized that the bootloader errors, should be cause by wrong or missing harddisk geometry - GRUB didn't find the hdb at all and LILO didn't recognize the device hdb as having any partitions on it - thus the "Hard Disk Error..." error form the GRUB bootloader and the "L01 01 01..." error from the LILO one.

I found out that the BIOS was hiding the HDD-1 drive because of the recognition mode set to "Disabled", I set this mode to "Auto" and it was there! Then all disk geometry was correct and the boot loaders were satisfied... But...

I'm still be unable to boot from hdb, I must put GRUB or LILO in MBR of hda in order to boot the installation on hdb. How the heck I can set the bootloader so that it boots from the hdb disk?

What settings/patitioning, bootloader configuration I should do, in order to be able to put the boot loader on hdb and then to boot directly from hdb?

I use BIOS to set the boot sequence in the following order:
1st = HDD-1 (this is my hdb)
2nd = CDROM
3rd = Floppy

Putting the GRUB bootloader on MBR of the hdb causes the GRUB to freeze with this text on the screen "GRUB ", puting there the LILO bootloader causes the boot to freeze with this screen
"99 99 99 99 ..." (a screen full of "99"s)
Then puting a bootloader (GRUB or LILO does not matter) in the /boot section of the /root partiton of hdb renders the hdb to be non-bootable and BIOS proceeded directly to the next boot device in the boot sequence.
Ohh yes, I put the "boot"-flag on that /root partition ("Activate the partiton as bootable"-option form the YaST2's Bootloader Setup Screen.

So, what please can I do in order to make it working directly from the hdb disk?

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
Old 05-13-2004, 05:03 AM   #11
JZL240I-U
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I think you have to rethink what you know of the boot concept See also

http://axiom.anu.edu.au/~okeefe/p2b/...ower2bash.html

So. You always boot from the MBR of your first boot-device, never mind whether that is hda or hdb. But the MBR is NOT the boot loader, it just loads the boot loader and then relinquishes control to it. And it doesn't care from where to load, hda, hdb, hdx... it's all the same to it. During installation of the boot loader you therefore must tell the MBR from where to load -- and you must tell it to the correct MBR...

Since you get messages from a boot loader during boot-up, the MBR (which-one ever you used) has already ceded control to the boot loader.

Now the possibilities multiply:
# The active MBR points to the wrong installation of the boot loader (old, defect, ...)
# The boot loader's configuration is not correct
# The boot loader's installation is not correct

I'd suggest you boot with your 1 SuSE disk, activate "Repair System" use there the expert modus and reinstall the boot loader (its automated, no sweat). All you have to do is clicking on "change the configuration". Note down every step you do and post the results here and the configuration here (can be found as /boot/grub/menu.lst as well). Good luck .

PS:

GRUB HOWTO (Linux+Win9x)
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Linux+Win9x+Grub-HOWTO/
GRUB Manual GNU.ORG (FSF)
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/
GRUB Manual (Table of Contents)
http://www.mcc.ac.uk/grub/grub_toc.html
GRUB Mini-HOWTO (Multiboot)
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Multiboot-with-GRUB.html

browse these and search for the command "map" in the configuration file for GRUB.
 
Old 05-13-2004, 06:10 AM   #12
sbogus
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Thanks JZL240I-U,

Quote:
Now the possibilities multiply:
# The active MBR points to the wrong installation of the boot loader (old, defect, ...)
# The boot loader's configuration is not correct
# The boot loader's installation is not correct
Okay, should I assume, the bootloader installation made by the YaST2 application (no by me!) is wrong and buggy?! At least I start to think so, reading your post... I'm really a newbie and I just want to pick up a bootloader, to put it on the MBR of the hdb disk and to install it...! Then I expect this to work when I start booting from that disk (I'm sure I specify the HDD-1 drive, wich is my hdb disk, as the first bootable drive).

Quote:
I'd suggest you boot with your 1 SuSE disk, activate "Repair System" use there the expert modus and reinstall the boot loader (its automated, no sweat). All you have to do is clicking on "change the configuration". Note down every step you do and post the results here and the configuration here (can be found as /boot/grub/menu.lst as well). Good luck.
Thanks, I'll sure do that ASAP, probably even this evening.

Thanks for the posted documentation&manual links!

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
Old 05-13-2004, 06:27 AM   #13
JZL240I-U
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
... I just want to pick up a bootloader, to put it on the MBR of the hdb disk and to install it...! Then I expect this to work when I start booting from that disk (I'm sure I specify the HDD-1 drive, wich is my hdb disk, as the first bootable drive).
Read my post again, you do not install the boot loader in the MBR. And yes, Yast is buggy and has problems with the boot loader...

Quote:
Originally posted by sbogus
Thanks for the posted documentation&manual links!
You are wellcome . Don't forget to read up on "map".
 
Old 05-13-2004, 07:08 AM   #14
sbogus
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Thanks again,

okay, I see the difference you explaining about MBRs, the MBR is just a "locator" for the bootloader, but still do not understand why the YaST2 setup gives me the choice to "put the boot loader into MBR". I see these choices in the "Bootloader Instalation" section of the setup:
  • Install the bootloader into MBR on hda
  • Install the bootloader into /boot section of the /root parition on hdb (hdb2)
  • Install the bootloader on fd0
  • Install the bootloader on other device
The last choice opens another list of choices
  • /dev/hda
  • /dev/hda1
  • /dev/hda6
  • /dev/hdb
  • /dev/hdb2
  • /dev/fd0


It seems that the bootloader gets touched (attempt to be executed) only if an installation was made "in the MBR" of the disk (this in terms of YaST2 setup application), so probably the only way to get GRUB properly installed is to do it manually via grub-install or in the case you propose, to do it from the "Repair system" menu.

I'm sure a proper bootloader installation puts in the MBR of the referenced disk this small famous 512 Byte piece of bootloader-locator, but YaST2 does this for sure not properly....

Anyway, I'll give it a try this evening and will post here the result.
Thanks again!

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
Old 05-14-2004, 03:47 AM   #15
sbogus
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Hi folks,
well, yet just another small update of the situation (YasuS)....

JZL240I-U, you're definitely right - I figured out, my LILO is just incomplete and the famous YaST2 does not install the bootloaders correct!.
Guess why the LILO says "L99 99 99..." the whole screen and then freezes?! Guessed?! It is because the "stage2" of the LILO just does not exist! Anyware on my hdb I cannot find one of the boot????.b images, which I saw in my old 7.3 installation. If the stage2 does not exist, of course LILO will not start - easy to understand that isn't it?

Well, then I figured out that I might need to reinstall LILO... But no luck - reinstalling LILO from the rpm did not brought the boot????.b images to me, they just do not exist on my disk. Where can I download them? Or where can I find them?

Well then... I dired to try installing GRUB, because of GRUB worked on my machine when it was installed on hda. And I managed to get it also working on hdb... But just working, not booting
When I chose from the boot menu the Linux choice it says "Error 17: Cannot mount selected partition", wich means the GRUB can't recognize the partition type (it say it is 0x05). The swap and the native linux partitions on hdb are reiserfs and the reiserfs_stage_1_5 is present in the /boot directory.

Here is the relevant part of my /boot/grub/menu.lst file:


title Linux
root (hd1,1)
kernel (hd1,1)/vmlinuz-2.4.21-144-athlon root=/dev/hdb2 apm=off hdd=ide-scisi hddlun=0 splash=silent
initrd /boot/initrd


I have three partitions only on the hdb disk: hdb1 is 1GB, swap and reiserfs. hdb2 is 40GB. linux native and reiserfs, mounted on "/" (the SuSE 9.0 installation resides here), the last one is hdb5, 55 GB, linux native, ext2, mounted on "/usr/extended".

I have manually installed GRUB using this command from the promt, as root user

grub-install --force-lba /dev/hdb

I also tried this one

grub-install --force-lba --root-directory=/dev/hdb2 /dev/hdb

But the same error occurs when trying to boot the Linux-choice form the GRUB boot menu. After each install grub-install tells me that the device map is correct:

/dev/hda is hd0
/dev/hdb is hd1
/dev/fd0 is fd0

This also corresponds to what the Linux knows about my devices.

So, this time where is the error?

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
sbogus
 
  


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