Ubuntu Linux & Windows 7 - Dual Boot or just use Windows in a Virtual Machine?
 

I'm looking at making the switch from a laptop with Windows 7 to one with Ubuntu Linux (my HP Pavilion is dying a slow but unrepairable hardware death) but I have a couple programs I'm probably going to have to run with Windows. A few games I'd like to keep but mostly my Scrivener novel writing program that only has a glitchy beta version for Linux, plus I already own the Windows version and can put it on a second machine. Disclaimer: I've never actually used Linux. At all. But because I frequently have to live off public WiFi due to travel, I'd rather have something more secure, and nothing makes a writer swear more than having to do a hard restart in the middle of a chain of thought because of a freeze.

I'm looking at a System 76 Pangolin Performance laptop which comes with Ubuntu installed. I can get a legit copy of Windows 7 relatively inexpensively. So my questions are: 1) Do I need dual boot? Or will most things run ok in a virtual machine? Since my writing program integrates with media and research I would end up using the Windows side a LOT in a dual boot, and have to do my research-related web surfing there in order to save things to that program, probably enough that it would kind of defeat the purpose of getting Linux in the first place. I don't completely understand how the dual boot and virtual machine work and what it takes to switch between Linux and Windows. Complete newbie here, and I'm not a techie though I have a decent learning curve.

My other question is, if I did partition the HD for dual boot, how much hard drive space I need. I was only looking at the 500GB because that's what I have now and it's been plenty. Do I need more than that if I'm installing both OS?

I hope my questions were clear but I'm just learning the lingo, so please ask (kindly) if you need clarification or more info.

A Virtual install will be more convenient as you won't need to reboot to switch systems.
Running in a virtual machine on another OS will be slower but if you don't have a need for speed it should not be a problem.
10-20GB should be enough for a Linux filesystem. You can create a separate data partition or partitions to share between Linux/windows if you do a full install, dual-booting. You can read/write from Linux to a windows partition but the reverse is not true as windows won't even recognize a Linux filesystem.

There are numerous tutorials available online on installing Ubuntu and it also has very good support as it is about the most widely used version of Linux for home users.

Gaming in a virtual machine is mostly a no-go, when these are 3D games newer than 7-8 years, the virtual 3D cards lack many features and the performance for that.

So basically I'd need to do dual boot in order to play any of my existing Windows-based games?

So I guess that begs another question (probably a stupid question, but I'm completely green on this), can you set up a dual boot system AND boot Ubuntu and use a virtual machine for other non-game Windows programs? For example, can I set it up for dual boot with a partitioned HD for Windows gaming but boot Ubuntu and use my Windows-based writing program in a virtual machine?

@Yancek, it is possible to read/write ext2,3,4 fs with third party drivers for windows
http://www.ext2fsd.com
It has been a while since I used it myself, was a bit slow but worked.

@spinnerette
As previously mentioned a VM is certainly more convenient but you may have issues with the games.

An option which may give you the best of both worlds is Dual Boot for your games and Wine for Scrivener.
You may even be able to get away with Wine for the games.

Here is a link to WineHQ's app database for Scrivener

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManage...tion&iId=12274


missed your post..
Ref bold
I think you would need to buy two copies of windows.

if Wine works well for Scrivener , one Copy
if your games also work well with Wine, no Copies :)

Yes, that is no problem. Of course you will have two Windows installations, one native (for dual booting), one virtual. That may be a license issue with Windows, but that depends on your Windows version, IIRC.

Wins 7 should need only about 80 Gigs if you remove wins.old & others. Befiore removing wins.old you have to be sure you have a good working virus free environment.
Wins.old takes up quite a bit of space. To be safe I would allocate 150G that way you have room for atleast 1 wins.old

You should try a virtual machine first. If it works well for you then leave it alone. It is one of the most easy and safe ways to test and use linux.

System76 comes with Ubuntu already in it. I like dualboot but in your case the scenario is different. When installing Windows it will take over the entire hard drive, from there you will need to go and resize your partitions.
100GB for windows will be plenty in a 500GB hard drive, leave another 100GB to store data files you wish to share among the two OSs. The rest for Ubuntu or any other Linux base OS. Then you can set up a virtual machine in Ubuntu and give it access to your shared partition. You will be all set for some serious writing.

Good luck to you, hopefuly you enjoy your new machine

If you're paying for Windows anyhow it may make more sense to buy a machine with windows installed and use Linux in a VM.
That way you can play your games OK and fire up a Linux VM for anything it's better suited for.

He already owns the install windows cd.for what I understand. So buying a computer with Linux is a good idea. Then installing windows using the CD he already owns.
Unless I miss understood something from the original post.

I take your point about already owning Windows but in buying a computer with Linux and dual booting chances are he will get very fed up of having to constantly reboot. If Windows needs hardware acceleration but Linux doesn't I see no advantage using Linux dual boot.

Please re-read the OP

You re-read it...
I read it as the OP probably has a windows install disk they can use that's not necessarily fully licensed but can obtain a license if needs be.
Not my fault the post is contradictory.

No, spinnerette
has a copy of Scrivener
can get Windows 7 at a good price
often uses public wifi and has security concerns
It isn't, you just didn't read it correctly which is why I asked you to re-read it.

Fair enough, sorry.
I still maintain that since Windows needs bare metal he may as well buy a machine with Windows installed and use a Linux VM. I can't think of any benefits of doing it the other way around.

Firerat is correct. I own the Windows copy of Scrivener and my license allows me to put it on my new laptop without paying for it again. I am planning on purchasing a legit copy of Windows 7 either way since I can get it at a discount, because while I would prefer to run it on Ubuntu Linux for the added security and stability, that won't work for every program I own. I'm just wondering whether you would recommend dual boot or running Windows in a virtual machine for my situation.

And I'm a "she." :)

Sorry ma'am, I should have clocked the "ette".
I still think that if you want to play Windows games cannot run Windows in a virtual machine. So that either leaves you dual booting and getting frustrated at having to or making an Ubuntu VM which you can use for web browsing and anything else you would rather use a "more secure" OS for.

For your situation, because you need 3D acceleration in your games, I would recommend to run Windows native and Linux in a virtual machine. You won't have improved security if you run Windows in a VM and you won't have less security if you run Linux in a VM.

I'm wanting Ubuntu Linux as my main OS for the security and stability reasons I mentioned. Ideally I'd like to use that as much as possible and just use Windows 7 for the things I just really can't make work in Linux. If Linux was the VM I'd have to have Windows running on it all the time...in which case I'd lose the exact reasons I want to switch anyway and I'd just buy a Lenovo with Windows 7 and not mess with learning Linux.

Plus I can get a comp with much better specs for the price this way and we're really on a budget. Try to find ANYTHING with Windows preinstalled that comes with 16GB of RAM under $1400. The Pangolin Performance is going to be $919 shipped with upgrades for the 16GB RAM and Intel Core i7 processor.

I also have learned on the Scrivener forums that I can probably make that work on Wine with a little extra effort. So I'm wondering if maybe the dual core is a better idea than the virtual machine since we'd basically just be using it for games. Thoughts?

How much processor power you need comes down to your needs. If you are just authoring texts and occasionally playing a not too demanding game a dual-core will be fine. If you want to run Linux as main OS and need 3d acceleration on Windows than you have to dual boot.

Not all functions of Scrivener will work in Wine, have a look here: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManage...sion&iId=26846

I refer you to TobiSGD's answer above about security and stability. I haven't used Windows at home for at least 10 years outside a VM and I don't intend to any time soon, however I don't think that Ubuntu (or any Linux) is going to be more secure than Windows 7 if it's set up right.
I am extremely surprised that you find prices for Linux machines cheaper -- whenever I've looked machines with Linux pre-installed have cost more if there has been a price difference. You're lucky to find that.
If you must run Linux outside a VM then your only choice is to dual boot. You cannot run most Windows games in a VM and a lot of the ones you can don't run properly. You could buy a laptop with Linux though and try the games in a VM -- you may get lucky.

Thanks. I've seen that and I think those are features I can live without. All the ones that are really important to make the program do what I want it to do seem to be intact so I think it will be ok even if it's not perfect.

In light of that, I'm thinking the dual boot might not be a bad option because we'd basically just need Windows 7 occasionally on the weekend when my husband wants to play with his RC flight simulator or one of our various "Tycoon" games. The more I think about my actual usage, I mostly use it for writing and research, e-mail and playing web-based Euro strategy nerd games. ;)

It sounds like you have a plan :D.
As I see it Linux is great but if you need Windows then you need Windows and a VM means no 3D support and dual booting means that if you're using Windows regularly it gets annoying. I would rather discourage somebody from using Linux than encourage them to use it where it causes frustration.

No worries, sorry for being curt.
If you take away the security/stability reasoning then there is no real need for Linux at all.
But, Windows hosting a Linux VM would be good for the toe in the water experience. A complicated experience so many options with different distos and desktops ( Me hate unity )

Anyway this is how I see it.
lets just assume Linux is pre installed, for secure public WiFi

( apologies for the poor formating below, been a while :) )
The Primary concern is whether or not Scrivener will work
Apparently there is a Linux Version of Scrivener, but it is in Beta and is not production quality, thus ruled out.
Options?

1. Wine , Scrivener is listed on WineHQ with GOLD status
   Key features work, but some features do not
   Test report was submitted Oct 2012, things may have moved on.
   + Wine would have the advantage of being seamless (mostly), assuming all required functions work.
   + Also no extra cost involved.
   - But Wine may come with install/setup frustration ( install complication ).
2. VM , Scrivener pretty much guaranteed to work
   - may put a strain on resources, causing lag and excessive power consumption.
   - extra cost
3. Dual Boot
   + Scrivener guaranteed to work
   - inconvenient
   - cost
   - install complication
4. Wildcard , http://alternativeto.net/software/scrivener/
   + may find something superior

Next problem is Games,
again we can go though Wine >> VM >> Dual Boot

I feel that Dual boot for games would be less inconvenient.. then again perhaps not idk.

technically there are no problems
Regards diskspace I'm the wrong person to answer this, no matter the size I will fill it :)

I think win7 bare minimum is 30GB , but you will run out of space very quickly once the bloat, malware and toolbars start installing themselves ;)
I think the 100GB for win suggestions are spot on
an exta data (NTFS?) partition is not a bad idea, but I find the Linux Drivers to be a little crazy with CPU usage.

Installing Windows over Linux is a pain, but no need for Linux > win > Linux

1. using LiveCD or gparted CD shrink the Linux partition and create a new partition for Win
2. using something like https://launchpad.net/grub-customizer, 'backup' grub to the MBR of a pendrive/external drive
3. Install Windows
4. Boot From pendrive, re-install grub to MBR and update ( to find windows )

No problem at all and I apologise also. I did skim-read the original post so I phrased my answer badly.

@spinnerette I still would encourage you to go with the dualboot. If you need to reboot to switch session, well a new computer boots in less than a minute so that will give you time to refill your tea or coffee cup.

VirtualBox in Linux is fine and if you change your mind after installing it then just delete it and no a big deal. If somebody ask why are you running Virtualbox in Linux well the best answer is 'Because I can, so what?' it is nobody's business anyway what you run in your computer.

So have fun and apologies for calling you a He at first. Good luck to you

Yeah, dual boot is the direction I think I'm going to take. Since realistically I think I'll only use Windows very occasionally for games and to update my phone (I have an iPhone and it doesn't seem from my googling that iTunes runs well in Wine, compatibility rankings ranged from "bronze" to "garbage") the minute to reboot is not a big deal. It would be different if those were things I used daily but they're not. I took an inventory today of the programs I actually use (versus the ones I have that I haven't touched in a year) and really I can probably make the switch a lot less painfully than some people since iTunes is the only incompatible thing I really *have* to have.

I did pursue Firerat's "option 4" a little and it looks like there is a decent writing program called Celtx that supports Linux and is only $14.99 for the "Pro" version so I may give that a shot and see if it's a viable replacement for Scrivener. If not I'll just run Scrivener in Wine and deal with the few minor bugs. If I have trouble figuring out how to set up the dual boot on my own I have someone IRL who can walk me through it in exchange for baked goods ;)

And no need to apologize TroN-0074, I wasn't offended, just though I'd clarify the pronoun ;)

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Update...typed on my new System 76 Gazelle :) (I decided to go with the Gazelle instead of the Pangolin for the better graphics card and I went with upgrades for 16GB RAM and the 240GB SSD. Couldn't be happier.)

I changed my mind...again...after using Ubuntu for a few days (love it) and re-evaluating what I ACTUALLY use vs. what I have and use more in theory than practice. We don't really game that much. I don't think we've played a single non-web based computer game since I started this thread. I basically only HAVE to have Windows for iTunes and Rosetta Stone. (I decided to switch from Scriviner to the Linux-friendly Celtx so that became a non-issue.) So I decided to go with VirtualBox instead. I think I'll be happier with that in the long run. Thanks for all the advice. I'm just sad it took me so long to figure out I'm really a Linux girl at heart!

Congratulations on your new computer. Good to heard you are enjoying your new experience with linux, however if you have some questions in the future you can always come back to the forums and post whichever question or comment you might have.

You could mark this thread as solved by clicking on the thread tools tab at the beginning of the thread.
Best luck for you in all your activities