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Old 04-01-2006, 04:07 PM   #1
MikRose
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Ubuntu Basics


I would like a few more suggestions before I continue: (dial-up)

1) I have 2 80G hard drives, XP Home on first, NTSF, 80% free.
2) I have installed Beginning Ubuntu Linux on the second drive.
3) The mbr screen comes up and I can boot to either system.
4) Ubuntu won't recognize the winmodem, and the instructions in
the book that came with the CD are confusing, so I am going
to get an inexpensive external modem.
5) Should I convert the ntsf on hd1 to fat32?
6) Should I install Ubuntu on first hd with XP?
7) I'd like to use the 2nd HD for backup in case 1st crashes.
8) Recommendations for partition sizes on each?
9) I have played around with partitioning and can do that OK.

I know the answers are numerous, and the book will be a big help eventually, but I don't feel the beginning chapters answer questions 5-8 well enough for me at this point. Thanks
 
Old 04-01-2006, 04:32 PM   #2
bernied
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some ideas from someone who's made loads of mistakes
one basic principle that i usually fail to follow:
...if it works, don't fix it...

maybe most of the answers to your questions depend on what you want to do with the system.
5 - fat32 (if my memory is right) is less secure than ntfs because there are no user-based file permissions. do you want to make it fat32 so you can share it with the ubuntu install? if so, consider putting only the files you want to share on a fat32 partition, rather than the whole windows install
6 - it can be an advantage to have different parts of a file system on different physical disks, and to have the swap partition on a different disk to whatever is being accessed the most (/usr?), it will be faster for the system to access two different disks than to access two different bits of the same disk (but this will also depend on how much swap gets used - ie how much RAM do you have, if you have ample then you don't need much swap - try loading a few applications, then try 'cat /proc/swaps' to find out how much you're using)
7 - you've got two disks, you could make two backups, how much other space do you need?
8 - keep it simple, keep some spare space for flexibility. and, consider that you might want to try another distribution some time in the future.

what do you want to do? are you just messing about (like me), or do you have a specific purpose for the machine?
 
Old 04-01-2006, 08:12 PM   #3
cparker15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikRose
4) Ubuntu won't recognize the winmodem, and the instructions in
the book that came with the CD are confusing, so I am going
to get an inexpensive external modem.
What modem do you have? Someone on this forum might be able to help you get it working step-by-step so you don't have to incur any more costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikRose
5) Should I convert the ntsf on hd1 to fat32?
I wouldn't. First, conversion could be risky. If you really want to convert, you should back up everything that's on the partition. Second, NTFS does provide more security than FAT32. Third, it is possible to read from an NTFS partition using some beta-quality NTFS drivers for your Ubuntu system. So, converting would be just way too much work, and really wouldn't provide much of a benefit (in fact, it could introduce security risks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikRose
6) Should I install Ubuntu on first hd with XP?
That's really your own call. Personally, I'd install on the first hard drive, and use the second hard drive for swap space and I'd perhaps create a vfat/fat32 partition on it to have read/write access from both Windows XP and Ubuntu. I might even elect to put all of the home directories on a separate partiion on the second drive, then mount the partition as /home. That way, if your Ubuntu install does get hosed, your home directories remain untouched.

Again, it's entirely your call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikRose
7) I'd like to use the 2nd HD for backup in case 1st crashes.
Perhaps you could implement a solution like I described in #6. If you do, then you could use this read/write partition to perform your backups. I found a decent mini-FAQ on the subject: Linux Backups mini-FAQ.

Or, if your hardware supports it, you could set up IDE mirroring (RAID1).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikRose
8) Recommendations for partition sizes on each?
How big is your NTFS partition? Since you're just trying out Ubuntu for the first time, your main partition should probably be in the 5GB - 10GB range, although feel free to make it larger if you'd like. If you plan on putting everything on one partition, it should probably be larger. Disk space and partition sizes are something that there really isn't a definite answer to. It depends.

Except for the boot partition and your swap partition. Leave the boot partition at default, and the general standard is to have your swap partition's size at least 2x the amount of RAM you have.

Any questions, feel free to reply.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 09:08 PM   #4
syg00
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4) If Ubuntu doesn't find it, it may not be worth chasing. External will be a good (and cheap) option.
5) NO !!! - contrary to the above, the NTFS read support is very stable. Ubuntu includes all the necessary kernel options - you may need to specify umask or somesuch in fstab. If you need a share (writable) partition, create a fat32 - read/write is supported natively.
6) Shouldn't matter - recommendations above sound sensible.
 
Old 04-02-2006, 05:19 AM   #5
gitnrdun1115
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I agree with syg00 about #4. Don't chase it. Generally linux will not recognize Winmodems. Hope that helps a little.
 
Old 04-03-2006, 10:11 AM   #6
MikRose
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Ubuntu Basics

bernied---

Question # 5...yes, I wanted to be able to share it with the ubuntu. I found in ubuntu that under Disks, I can view the NTSF files on HD1 that contains XP so that is good. It said what you said, that I could just put the files I want to be able to view, edit Fat32 and transfer them.

#7...I guess I wanted to make a backup of HD1 on a regular basis, on HD2, but would the destination of that backup simply be the empty partition on HD2 that isn't holding ubuntu and swap? I guess I'm still thinking since HD1 is ntsf that it won't show on HD2 as a backup!

I'm just messing around and learning, no purpose. I probably won't ever do much with gaming or media. I want to get away from Windows and all of the updates, patches, etc. I really look forward to learning how to work with text files. Being able to get around without using the gui would be a thrill!

cparker15---

Modem is PCI SoftV92 Speakerphone Modem

I think your suggestions on Q 6 & 7 are good, I'll check out the Linux Backups Mini FAQ

NTSF is 6.39G out of 74.5G

syg00 and gitnrdun1115---I agree, external modem here I come! Thanks
 
Old 04-17-2006, 09:31 PM   #7
MikRose
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Howdy. Well I received the V.92 serial modem (Best Data) purchased on eBay for good price and it took right off. Now am following my Beginners book that came with my CD for ubuntu to get things fine-tuned. I did disable my other modem so plan on using this one for either XP or ubuntu, seemed to hang up a bit if I left both active. Can't wait to get into it more and experiment, already nice to know I'm part of the "abnormal" crowd! PS I know the more of the updates I download the more junk I will have that might not need, but it is a good idea to just let the Package manager do its' thing for online respositories?
 
Old 06-04-2006, 12:17 PM   #8
burninGpi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syg00
If you need a share (writable) partition, create a fat32 - read/write is supported natively.
Actually, you don't need fat32. As of kernel version 2.6.15, writing to NTFS is stable.
 
Old 04-06-2007, 11:35 AM   #9
cparker15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syg00
5) NO !!! - contrary to the above, the NTFS read support is very stable. Ubuntu includes all the necessary kernel options - you may need to specify umask or somesuch in fstab. If you need a share (writable) partition, create a fat32 - read/write is supported natively.
I never implied that read support wasn't stable (I didn't intend to, anyway). I did say that the drivers were beta quality. The last time I checked, write support was disabled by default in the NTFS drivers because writing was buggy and could result in data loss.

However, as time has passed, it seems that burninGpi is (mostly) correct.

From linux-ntfs.org:

Quote:
Linux has an integrated kernel driver. It allows reading of files, and rewriting existing files. It does not support creation of new files or deletion of existing files.
There is an improved NTFS driver called Linux-NTFS that has better write support, but it seems it's not 100% yet. Also from linux-ntfs.org:

Quote:
ntfsprogs includes an improved driver, ntfsmount, which provides the same functionality as the kernel driver. Additionally it also supports basic cases of directory, symlink, device and FIFO file creation, deletion and renaming. Note: That doesn't mean it always succeeds, it is still experimental and might just as well refuse to complete an operation in order to prevent corruption.
A member of the Linux-NTFS community forked the Linux-NTFS codebase and made vast improvements to it. This fork is called "NTFS-3G". It is stable and includes full read/write support.

There's also Captive, but I wouldn't recommend it. Captive itself is free software, however it's a wrapper for the proprietary NTFS driver from Microsoft Windows. It's useless without the proprietary Microsoft NTFS driver. This goes against the entire point behind writing free replacements for proprietary software and drivers.

Sources:

Last edited by cparker15; 04-06-2007 at 11:41 AM.
 
  


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