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Old 02-24-2003, 07:32 PM   #1
kuriptic
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Registered: Feb 2003
Distribution: RedHat 8.0
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MBR or boot Sector?- NTFS dual boot


I plan to install redhat 8.0....On my box which already has two hard-Drives.With WinXp on drive hda,I want to install redhat on hdb,Since I have a NTFS partion on the first drive(hda) is it necessary,that I put the bootloader
on the second drive hdb in linux root partion boot sector
or do I have the option on putting a bootloader on the MBR( on hda)

I've read(linux+certification bible) that you have to put the bootloader in the Root partion and on a floppy for my sitution
I've also heard(from other forums) that this was not necessary and that I could put it in the MBR with Ntloader reconizing it abling a dual boot at start up.

Please clearify this for me thanx.

Last edited by kuriptic; 02-24-2003 at 07:34 PM.
 
Old 02-24-2003, 10:42 PM   #2
kuriptic
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ok..I havent got and answer if was possible to put the bootloader in the MBR for and NTFS dual boot,and still work.
Lets skip that question for a second. If I went with the recomended start up,by putting the bootloader in the linux root partition and on a floppy diskette.

How would I go about gettin rid of using the floppy and inserting the boot file into windows BOOT.ini

I've read around in the forums and found some helpful discussion

such as:

To set up a bootloader(grub) from the linux partition by going to start run then /sbin/grub-install /devv/hda3

then get the boot image file NTLDR will need by typing this

dd if/dev/hda3 of=dev/fd0/bootsect.Lnx bs=512 count =1

then goin to windows and puttin the bootsect.Lnx in the root and adding c:\bootsect.lnx="RedHAt" in the boot.ini

but refering to the book I've been reading(linux+certification bible)

has similar almost the same instruction but different...

AS:
mount -t msdos /dev/fd0/mnt/floppy

then dd if =/dev/hda5 bs=512 count=1 of=/mnt/floppy/linux.bin

then editing boot.ini in windows
with linux.bin instead of bootsect.lnx
basically I'm asking some to break down the commands for me(which each one litterally means) and if some one could tell me which way is correct or are they both write.
I'm new to linux so these commands dont make to much sense I see that there "almost the same but not the same" I know that makes A huge difference when it comes to typing commands..

I know I seem impatient,I'm just hungry for knowledge..

thanx in advance
 
Old 02-24-2003, 11:17 PM   #3
Dark_Helmet
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Well, I don't know how to set up Windows to present the multi-boot menu or how to set the options correctly. I do have an answer for your first question though.

The MBR is not a part of any filesystem. The MBR contains a small program to begin loading an operating system's kernel. It has no concept of filesystems to my knowledge. Thus, you can install lilo or grub to the MBR of a hard drive containing an NTFS filesystem with no problem.

Before doing that though, I would experiment with your current set-up first. Modify whichever boot loader you have to boot Windows. In other words, boot from your floppy disk, which will load either lilo or grub, and change the configuration files to add an entry for your Windows partition. Once you can successfully boot to Windows using either lilo or grub, then you can be fairly confident that your configuration can safely be placed into the MBR.

If you're paranoi...<ahem> cautious, make sure you have a DOS/Windows boot disk handy to run 'fdisk /mbr' if things go wrong after placing the boot loader in the MBR.
 
Old 02-24-2003, 11:22 PM   #4
Dark_Helmet
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Sorry, didn't realize you hadn't installed RH8 yet.

You have two options:
1. Let Red Hat 8 detect your Windows partition and install grub (the default) in the MBR (i.e. you're trusting Red Hat's ability to figure things out on its own)
2. Install Red Hat, creating the boot disk and placing grub into the Red Hat partition.

In my opinion, #2 is safer, especially if you have critical data on your Windows setup. Also, the steps I was talking about with using the boot floppy, to grub, to windows assumes you have the setup described in #2.
 
Old 02-25-2003, 02:38 AM   #5
kuriptic
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Thnx alot Dark_Helmet!! Now that I have the answer to my first question. I think I will go with the second(#2) setup regarding to Dark_Helmet suggestion of a safer setup "since I have many important files on windows that aren't "backed up" at this point"
I'll play it safe!!

So if anybody can walk me through this setup of gettin rid of the floppy boot,and directly booting up linux and windows through the boot.ini
I'd appeciate it alot thanx again Dark_Helmet for your response.

Last edited by kuriptic; 02-25-2003 at 02:42 AM.
 
Old 02-25-2003, 01:59 PM   #6
kuriptic
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OK I went ahead and tried to figer it out myself now. (I' messed up!!!!! windows Xp wont boot)
I did the Recomended boot up
(2. Install Red Hat, creating the boot disk and placing grub into the Red Hat partition(not the MBR),using the floppy to boot linux at every start up)

then to get rid of using the floppy to boot linux up I ran:
/sbin/grub-install /dev/hda1

and got a report back:

(0 record in and 0 record out)

then mounted the blank floppy:

dd if=dev/hda1 of=/dev/fd0/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1

So I reboot and BAM!!! grub came on with two options "redhat" and "dos"
I thought great Now I dont need the floppy to boot,Sure that was nice

But I cant get into windows now When I click to the dos option,(it just goes blank for a sec then back to grub)no boot to windows,oh of course I can get into redhat fine.

Please help I need to be albe to get into windows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 02-25-2003, 03:40 PM   #7
Nefarious
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ok hmmm... I ran into a little problem like this when i had Red Hat... GRUB boot loder sometimes hides the flags for Win XP so here this is the help that i recieved mabey it will help you.



here is a generic grub.conf for linux and windows

# make sure you have lines like these two, if there is no default it will boot in the list order, but you need timeout

default=0
timeout=10

# the following may differ on yours, don't change it

splashimage=(hd1,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Red Hat Linux (2.4.18-3)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.18-3 ro root=/dev/hda2
initrd /initrd-2.4.18-3.img


#this is what you need to add to your /etc/grub.conf

title WinXP
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
unhide (hd0,0)



that should fix it



If i was you... I would either install a diff distro

But really what you could do 2 is reinstall RED HAT and when you it asks you to pick a boot loader... go with LILO....

That would also fix it ... prob.

Last edited by Nefarious; 02-25-2003 at 03:42 PM.
 
Old 02-25-2003, 03:59 PM   #8
kuriptic
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ok thnx..,But before I every had the chance of reading your post "Nefarious" I decided to try and fix the problem my self, SO I put in a xp cd went to recovery
and put in the "fixboot" command for windows.That work fix the boot problem for windows XP great!
And also put linux bootsect.lnx in the c: directory change the boot.ini
but When I restart I can boot back in windows fine but linux doesn't boot,Just a black screen that says GRUB...
I do have the linux boot floppy though..(so gettin into linux that way is no problem)
now that you have told me how to config grub..I just need to know how the comand exactly are instead of me doing trail and error test.

example:
then to get rid of using the floppy to boot linux up I ran:
/sbin/grub-install /dev/hda1

is that right or what?? cause my windows in on hda1 and linux is on hdb1 seems I may have them backwards or It also seems like I 'm getting the two different boot methods(from above)mix together??
I need some bug time clearification here..???????
 
Old 02-25-2003, 04:04 PM   #9
Nefarious
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Undo what u did lol.... and do what i said to do... or... at this time do what i said to do in the second part... REINSTALL Red Hat and when it comes up to choose a boot loader choose LILO and not Grub
 
Old 02-25-2003, 05:25 PM   #10
kuriptic
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"Nefarious".
Well I undid what I did early,and setting things back as of where I couldn't boot into winXp and I changed the /etc/grub.conf
to what you told me above,but still no luck,it didn't help,So my only option your saying is to reinstall linux agian this time choosing lilo(linux loader).

Question? is there any other way around reinstalling linux agian
if somebody knows please let me know and reply thnx
 
Old 02-25-2003, 05:46 PM   #11
Nefarious
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yea i say uninstall then and try going with lilo
 
Old 02-25-2003, 06:31 PM   #12
kuriptic
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Well thats it!!! I did uninstall Redhat 8.0 then reinstalled it with lilo in the MBR
with no problems everything boots.

thnxs alot "Nefarious"

One more question is there a way to change the way lilo looks,cause everything looks very distorted and stretched out.
 
Old 02-25-2003, 06:43 PM   #13
Nefarious
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Talking

np man..... um im not sure about that

Enjoy Linux
 
  


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