LinuxQuestions.org
Go Job Hunting at the LQ Job Marketplace
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 02-04-2009, 12:51 PM   #1
fuzzy1
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 7

Rep: Reputation: 0
Total Noob Question (Operating System vs File System)


Hey All,
This is going to sound silly perhaps, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.

Where is the Operating System in relation to the the root directory?

It is my impression that an Operating System is but a collection of files which must exist within some sort of file system?
 
Old 02-04-2009, 01:33 PM   #2
openSauce
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2007
Distribution: Fedora, openSUSE
Posts: 252

Rep: Reputation: 39
The OS is a collection of programs and other files which, yes, reside on (usually) the root filesystem. I believe the kernel image sits in /boot. The binaries in /bin and /sbin, and the config files in /etc, could perhaps be considered part of the OS in a sense. I'm sure someone will be along to provide a more complete answer shortly.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 01:52 PM   #3
Drakeo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Urbana IL
Distribution: Slackware, Slacko,
Posts: 2,633
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 220Reputation: 220Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1 View Post
Hey All,
This is going to sound silly perhaps, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.

Where is the Operating System in relation to the the root directory?

It is my impression that an Operating System is but a collection of files which must exist within some sort of file system?
are you starting a thread or do you just want to chat do you need help or do you want to use the search tools on this site that took many years of knowledge to build. and if you do not understand what script does and what a file or a folder is please go to that forum.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 02:01 PM   #4
pixellany
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Distribution: Arch/XFCE
Posts: 17,802

Rep: Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728Reputation: 728
Quote:
Where is the Operating System in relation to the the root directory?
Drakeo; I thought this was an OK question....

The Operating system is the kernel + various utilities and files. As stated, the kernel is normally in /boot. The rest can be basically all over the place. (e.g.: /bin, /sbin, /lib, /etc, /var, /proc (virtual files--window to the kernel data structures in memory), ....etc.)

You might be interested in the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard--- go to http://tldp.org

Last edited by pixellany; 02-04-2009 at 02:04 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 04:04 PM   #5
onebuck
Moderator
 
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Midwest USA, Central Illinois
Distribution: Slackware®
Posts: 11,289
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446
Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1 View Post
Hey All,
This is going to sound silly perhaps, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.

Where is the Operating System in relation to the the root directory?

It is my impression that an Operating System is but a collection of files which must exist within some sort of file system?
Not a silly question!

You could look at the 'Linux File System' section of 'Slackware-Links' . More than just Slackware® links!
 
Old 02-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #6
fuzzy1
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 7

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Thanks one and all for your kind indulgence!
bottom line, the Operating System does not typically reside outside of the root (presumably with exceptions such as embedded on removable storage etc.)

Of course, as it goes, questions answered tend to lead to many more questions, however I am confident the links so generously provided promise hours of good reading and fodder aplenty for experimentation.
Hope to pay it forward!

Regards,
TJ
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:24 PM   #7
Drakeo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Urbana IL
Distribution: Slackware, Slacko,
Posts: 2,633
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 220Reputation: 220Reputation: 220
well onebuck your the moderator if you think it is a good question then it must be good.but lets think about all the people that need help keeping there systems up. if you read my blog you will see the praise I give moderators and the point is lets start an what is an operating system thread and we can start with cmos and work are way up to file and folders scripts etc.
these question sound like we are doing some students home work for them. I read this in my dos manual and my unix manuals some time you just have to read to find it in stead of cut and past the answers in there home work assignment. is CMOS a operating system that control hold BIOS.
Quote:
Where is the Operating System in relation to the the root directory?

It is my impression that an Operating System is but a collection of files which must exist within some sort of file system?
so is a kernel an operatin system or just folders. what is an initrd just a folder or a file or a compressed file
this is a very in depth thing when writing loops on a comadore64 man I am old were those file or folders or scripts.
Quote:
Design

The design of the THE multiprogramming system is significant for its use of a layered structure, in which "higher" layers only depend on "lower' layers:

* Layer 0 was responsible for the multiprogramming aspects of the operating system. It decided which process was allocated to the CPU, and accounted for processes that were blocked on semaphores. It dealt with interrupts and performed the context switches when a process change was required. This is the lowest level. In modern terms, this was the scheduler.
* Layer 1 was concerned with allocating memory to processes. In modern terms, this was the pager.
* Layer 2 dealt with communication between the operating system and the console.
* Layer 3 managed all I/O between the devices attached to the computer. This included buffering information from the various devices.
* Layer 4 consisted of user programs. There were 5 processes: in total, they handled the compilation, execution, and printing of users' programs. When finished, they passed control back to the schedule queue, which was priority-based, favoring recently started processes and ones that blocked because of I/O.
* Layer 5 was the user (as Dijkstra notes, "not implemented by us").

The constraint that higher layers can only depend on lower layers was imposed by the designers in order to make reasoning about the system (using quasi-formal methods) more tractable, and also to facilitate building and testing the system incrementally. The layers were implemented in order, layer 0 first, with thorough testing of the abstractions provided by each layer in turn. This formal design process was highly successful, as reported by Dijkstra:

We have found it is possible to design a refined multiprogramming system in such a way that its logical soundness can be proved a priori and that its implementation admits exhaustive testing. The only errors that showed up during testing were trivial coding errors (occurring with a density of only one error per 500 instructions), each of them located with 10 minutes (classical) inspection at the machine and each of them correspondingly easy to remedy.[2]

This division of the kernel into layers was similar in some ways to Multics' later ring-segmentation model. Several subsequent operating systems have used layering to some extent, including Windows NT and Mac OS X, although usually with fewer layers.

The code of the system was written in assembly language for the Dutch Electrologica X8 computer. This computer had 32K of core memory using 27-bit words[1], a 512K drum providing backing store for the LRU algorithm, paper tape readers, paper tape punches, and printers.

[edit]

Last edited by Drakeo; 02-04-2009 at 06:33 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
Drakeo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Urbana IL
Distribution: Slackware, Slacko,
Posts: 2,633
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 220Reputation: 220Reputation: 220
what is an operating system
Quote:
The most important program that runs on a computer. Every general-purpose computer
must have an operating system
to run other programs. Operating systems
perform basic tasks, such as recognizing input from the keyboard, sending output to the display screen, keeping track of files and directories on the disk, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers.

For large systems, the operating system has even greater responsibilities and powers. It is like a traffic cop -- it makes sure that different programs and users running at the same time do not interfere with each other. The operating system is also responsible for security, ensuring that unauthorized users do not access the system.

Operating systems can be classified as follows:
# multi-user : Allows two or more users to run programs at the same time. Some operating systems permit hundreds or even thousands of concurrent users.
# multiprocessing : Supports running a program on more than one CPU.
# multitasking : Allows more than one program to run concurrently.
# multithreading : Allows different parts of a single program to run concurrently.
# real time: Responds to input instantly. General-purpose operating systems, such as DOS and UNIX, are not real-time.

Operating systems provide a software platform on top of which other programs, called application programs, can run. The application programs must be written to run on top of a particular operating system. Your choice of operating system, therefore, determines to a great extent the applications you can run. For PCs, the most popular operating systems are DOS, OS/2, and Windows, but others are available, such as Linux.

As a user, you normally interact with the operating system through a set of commands. For example, the DOS operating system contains commands such as COPY and RENAME for copying files and changing the names of files, respectively. The commands are accepted and executed by a part of the operating system called the command processor or command line interpreter. Graphical user interfaces allow you to enter commands by pointing and clicking at objects that appear on the screen.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 08:52 PM   #9
onebuck
Moderator
 
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Midwest USA, Central Illinois
Distribution: Slackware®
Posts: 11,289
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446Reputation: 1446
Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakeo View Post
well onebuck your the moderator if you think it is a good question then it must be good.but lets think about all the people that need help keeping there systems up. if you read my blog you will see the praise I give moderators and the point is lets start an what is an operating system thread and we can start with cmos and work are way up to file and folders scripts etc.
these question sound like we are doing some students home work for them. I read this in my dos manual and my unix manuals some time you just have to read to find it in stead of cut and past the answers in there home work assignment. is CMOS a operating system that control hold BIOS.
so is a kernel an operatin system or just folders. what is an initrd just a folder or a file or a compressed file
this is a very in depth thing when writing loops on a comadore64 man I am old were those file or folders or scripts.
I don't see this as a homework type question but it could be. I think we are all at different levels of understanding. No one on this earth knows everything. I learn something new every day and I hope to continue to explore therefore learning.

I hope we never have a forum with a litmus test. We don't need to do someone's homework but we can assist the person to enlighten. I don't want to spoon feed anyone but sometimes we must provide answers at a level the person can understand without all the techspeak.

BTW, I'm not a mod! I don't have enough patience.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 10:58 PM   #10
GibsoneanNode
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2009
Distribution: Desktop- Debian 4.0
Posts: 43

Rep: Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1 View Post
Hey All, this is going to sound silly perhaps, but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.
I'm very new to Linux Questions, myself, and it might be out of turn for me to suggest that you may have found a better way to frame a would-be conversation with a little forethought, nevertheless, the questions should be rewarding with more than answers because, in the manner presented, they are a rarity, discussion topics.

Your interest in the basic nature of things is a healthy outlook to have considering your recent decision to learn a new operating system. I wish more people would inquire about the generalities of computing and how things work, I think in the long run that process would bring them to GNU/Linux or its relations.

What may make what you asked somewhat burdensome for others is that, as Drakeo indicated, you didn't bring with your asking a researched interpretation of your own. Properly researched the questions might have made this the engaging discussion it still could become, but sadly not for your insight.

On a parallel note, I had hoped when I found Linux Questions that in addition to the generally well supplied questions and their attendant answers there might be the opportunity for casual discussions that remained on topic. The General forum would provide for this. Though newcomers, expectedly, might feel more at ease asking broad questions in an environment of their own and to the benefit of their peers.
 
Old 02-05-2009, 12:29 AM   #11
Drakeo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Urbana IL
Distribution: Slackware, Slacko,
Posts: 2,633
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 220Reputation: 220Reputation: 220
well I think you guys are very good people and it is a great pleasure to learn with all of you. I even learn from the new ones. the stuff I posted was stuff I learned years ago and it is nice to go back and reread stuff. that first post was from book I read in 1978 when I flunked out of computer science was to busy playing ping pong and building pong lol.
but it sure beet typing out punch cards. and stacking them and loading them now that was some files we kept in folders.
 
Old 02-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #12
fuzzy1
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 7

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
it might be out of turn for me to suggest that you may have found a better way to frame a would-be conversation with a little forethought
No. Not out of turn in the least. You are absolutely correct. I may have found a better way.

True, brevity can be symptomatic of sheer laziness. I respectfully submit however, that it can also be the cultivated product of careful forethought and consideration, AND a sign of respect, wherein one spares the intended audience the boring details of ones life story, in favor of direct simplicity. Judging by the responses posted by pixellany and openSauce, brevity seems to have been appropriate. Had it occurred to me however, to Google the string "Getting Started With Linux" -- I may have discovered pixellany's fine coverage of the subject in his works titled "All About the Boot" and "Disks and Partitions" after which I would not have needed ask at all. Sadly, after hours of digging, I didn't think of it.

I wholeheartedly agree that forums can prove to be veritable fountains of opportunity for intelligent discourse -- where curiosity, intelligence and personal responsibility meet with knowledge and understanding, to foster and celebrate creativity and common purpose.

I'm vexed however -- if not just a little bemused -- by those who -- like the rhinoceri of Malaysian, Indian, and Burmese legend -- rush in at any spark of curiosity to make a blustery show of stamping out the fire (rather than fanning the flames) with nothing to show for it afterward, but vacuous clouds of caustic smoke.

Under "How To Answer Questions in a Helpful Way"
just after the line "If you can't help, don't hinder"
we might add -- "Be thou not hasty, impugning the querent's integrity."

Fortunately, it has been my experience that eloquence, concision and good-will, generally win out.

Thanks again to pixellany for his patient moderation and his fine work at pixellany.com, to onebuck for his Wisdom and moderator-like patience, to openSauce for being the first to respond (and with a more or less complete answer), and to GibsoneanNode for his kind words of encouragement (presumptions regarding my pre-inquiry preparation and research -- or lack thereof -- not withstanding).

Lastly, hats off to Drakeo for his delightful --though off topic -- banter.
(I wonder how many years of knowledge it took to build this sites spiffy spell check tool?)

(For what it's worth, this was NOT homework;-)

(BTW... This IS the Newbie's forum isn't it?)

Last edited by fuzzy1; 02-05-2009 at 01:53 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2009, 01:34 PM   #13
fuzzy1
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 7

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
Oops

Last edited by fuzzy1; 02-05-2009 at 01:36 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2009, 08:26 PM   #14
GibsoneanNode
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2009
Distribution: Desktop- Debian 4.0
Posts: 43

Rep: Reputation: 16
fuzzy1, it was not for doubt of your potential that I thought to challenge you but because I perceived you had it in you to bring something to the discussion that would tangibly go missing without your inclusion of it. Look at the craft that went into the preparation of your last post. Where was that preparation in your first? My purpose hinges on your understanding of this and your prudence in not looking away.

Yes, “eloquence,” can win out but it need not be on the merits of its luster alone, there it can also obscure one's faults.

I do not mean however to misrepresent your mistake, which was after all a little thing and in the moment, or to over state it so that it takes on magnitude with each pronouncement. Though, after the time now invested in its discussion I also do not intend for you to overlook it.

You are right to take my words as a mild admonishment, one peer to the next, but you would be wrong to see them as contempt or to hold them in contempt yourself. I am not making sport of you, I speak with purpose and if your intellect overlooks that fact this will be much talk of talk.

As you mentioned, the inherent nature of the preparation one takes in order to ask a well prepared question sometimes negates the question needing to be asked at all, it's a double bind. One that unfairly implicated you. Though, you earnestly persisted in asking the question. Add a well meaning, but from some, staunchly rhetorical reception to your valid inquiry and this must have felt like no warm greeting, at all. I think you were right to favor pixellany and openSauce, it is to their credit that they addressed the substance of what you initiated.

I hope in time you find you enjoy this operating system, we would then have that in common, and I look forward to future conversations that we might each contribute to. Within them I will try to participate in a manner that is to our mutual benefit and toward our shared interests.
 
Old 02-06-2009, 10:33 AM   #15
Drakeo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Urbana IL
Distribution: Slackware, Slacko,
Posts: 2,633
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 220Reputation: 220Reputation: 220
GibsoneanNode your command of the english language my hats off to the gentleman.
Quote:
are you starting a thread or do you just want to chat do you need help or do you want to use the search tools on this site that took many years of knowledge to build. and if you do not understand what script does and what a file or a folder is please go to that forum.
And yes I am really bad at using my English language and spell check mmmmmmmm wow.
I guess that why I stayed with hardware. GibsoneanNode I love to read your stuff are you published ?. I like to read. You have great style and the ability to keep the small climax to an anticipation of mystery.
If you are writing script love to see some of you reference notes to you functions.
You truly are a Gentleman.Love bikes and Linux

Last edited by Drakeo; 02-06-2009 at 10:35 AM.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Operating system not found' Any operating system installed wont work. TechniSlave Linux - Newbie 55 02-09-2009 11:02 AM
Operating System question please kb100 General 8 08-28-2006 05:41 PM
making the help file for new operating system anil2003 Linux - Software 4 01-31-2006 12:35 PM
Slackware Operating System installation Question conductor Linux - Newbie 4 02-22-2005 07:27 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration