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Old 03-18-2015, 04:15 PM   #16
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,

Personally, I like to know the intrinsic aspects of something not having someone else doing the interpretation(s) for me. Sure, GUI are great for the short sighted but if you are always willing to let someone else decide how things should be done then by all means then use the GUI.
Just because someone might want to start out with a GUI doesn't mean they can't learn the CLI...I don't think telling a new user to jump into a CLI-only installation and just "figure it out" is a good way to learn Linux, at all.

Would you recommend somebody with zero programming experience start off with writing a kernel module from scratch? No, they start off with a basic "hello world", and gradually move up to more complicated tasks as their experience and knowledge base grows.

Would you recommend somebody who has never done any circuit design before start off with laying out a 20-layer computer motherboard? Of course not, they should start off with a simple LED flasher and maybe some logic gates and/or an MCU, and slowly move up as they learn more.

Similarly, why would you recommend somebody who has zero Linux experience start off with a CLI-only minimal installation with no user accounts, no GUI, potentially no network access, no web browser to look up information, etc.? You might call it an education by fire, but I call it a guaranteed way to end up with a broken system and an incredibly frustrated user.

IMO he would be much better off starting with a "normal" installation with a fully-functional GUI so he can get it up and running with minimal frustration, and then as tasks come up he can explore how to tackle them one by one using the command line instead of the GUI tools.

Last edited by suicidaleggroll; 03-18-2015 at 04:16 PM.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:35 PM   #17
onebuck
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Member response

Hi,

My experience was starting at the cli and that has opened doors throughout my career. No reason others cannot adapt to using the cli. Unlike some closed mined individuals that think stating with a GUI is the only way. I never said everyone must start at the cli but that if one wants to learn a system the cli is the way to go. Sure it will require more in-depth thought and research but very doable by a person with the abilities to read for understanding the documents available. And done by a motivated individual to get things done.

Please show me a admin worth his/her salt that utilizes GUI apps only. Sure you can maintain to some extent but knowing the command line and shell scripting will accomplish more then a point & click.

As to the electronics reference, one must understand the basics in order to even design a simple LED circuit. Not saying that person has too thevinize the circuit but should know how to calculate a proper current limiting resistor by understanding the LED characteristics and reading the limits on a data sheet by knowing the forward drop to calculate the necessary resistance to limit that current for a given source. If one understands and wants to learn advanced circuit designs then there are the means for that achievement. Yes, small steps do lead to experience and learning.

Why direct someone that has the desire to learn and someone like myself suggests that the command line will achieve that goal for an individual that wants to learn. Why would you inhibit that recommendation?

GUI does have limitation that are limited by the abilities of the author to hopefully complete a task(s) properly. To me even a curses script can be helpful but one should understand what is going on.

Quote:

A tool is but the extension of a man's hand and a machine is but a complex tool. He that invents a machine augments the power of man and the well being of mankind.” - Henry Ward Beecher


Man is a tool-using animal.”- Carlyle

"Knowledge is of two kinds. We Know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it."- Samuel Johnson
Just like the GUI we are using to communicate, nothing wrong with it. Just convenient to use for online communication. Not saying we could not communicate via lynx or the like from the command line. Do I like my Desktop? Yes! But I still like working from the command line.

We really should get this thread back on topic. If you wish to continue to discuss this then PM me.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 06:07 PM   #18
Pearlseattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
Fedora is the bleeding edge testbed for RHEL, it is not for server environments or any other environment where you don't want to reinstall the OS every 6 months to keep it out of obsolescence.

RHEL is not a free distro, there is a required support contract that costs $xxx per year. The free port of RHEL is CentOS, which keeps 1:1 with RHEL versioning and lifecycle and is 99 percent compatible.


There is no difference. RHEL is RHEL and CentOS is CentOS. The different "releases" just install different packages by default, but all packages are available on all "releases" via yum (the package management system on RHEL/CentOS/Fedora) once the OS is up and running. I usually just install the minimal release for size/speed reasons and then add on whatever packages I need/want from there. Just keep in mind if you go this route that the minimal version does not include a GUI, so if you want one you'd need to either install it after-the-fact or install a more "complete" version from the get-go.
I concur - just use Fedora (standard install with GUI as you'll want it soon or later), which I really like (but rarely use) and if I remember correctly (but I might be terribly wrong) it is now using a rolling-update-model meaning that once you install it you'll never ever ever ever have to reinstall it as long as you update it .
I used Fedora a few years ago when I tried to replicate some problems we had at the office with an Oracle DB and it worked great - very similar to RHEL and didn't have many problems when installing Oracle.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 06:18 PM   #19
Philip Lacroix
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I agree with onebuck about the strong advantages of learning GNU/Linux in a CLI-only environment. This might not apply to everyone, especially if one expects to be "productive" (whatever that word means) right away; however, too much relying on GUIs while learning is only going to hold you in "spoon feeding" mode.

I would mention the advantage of reading relevant documentation before you ever boot your machine from a GNU/Linux installation medium. Read about partitioning and basic system administration. Download your distribution's installation guide, print it out, relax and take your time to read it. If the maintainers of your distribution have published a guide, download it (or buy it) and read it. These readings will give you an enormous advantage, and it might take some time before you ever feel the need to start a question thread on a forum or a mailing list.
 
  


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