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Old 02-04-2010, 03:42 PM   #16
BeaverusIV
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Do you know about 'kill'?

(I haven't had too much success with it, though)

afaik: 'ps aux | grep <Program>' to get pid then kill -9 <pid>

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Old 02-05-2010, 04:21 AM   #17
irajjs
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverusIV View Post
Do you know about 'kill'?

(I haven't had too much success with it, though)

afaik: 'ps aux | grep <Program>' to get pid then kill -9 <pid>

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
No! i do not know much about commands and can not use them skillfully,i think kill is something like delete,or move to trash,but i prefer to brows files and applications,and if an application seems to be problem making ,then i will configure it to be manually started and in the next step i will move it to trash,since my beginning with Linux i haven,t used kill command neither i have moved an application to trash.
 
Old 02-05-2010, 06:42 AM   #18
mudangel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irajjs View Post
No! i do not know much about commands and can not use them skillfully,i think kill is something like delete,or move to trash,but i prefer to brows files and applications,and if an application seems to be problem making ,then i will configure it to be manually started and in the next step i will move it to trash,since my beginning with Linux i haven,t used kill command neither i have moved an application to trash.
Kill is nothing like delete. You don't "move an application to trash"; if you want to remove an application from your system, you uninstall it.
BTW, trash(like a "trash" directory/folder) is not a linux thing, more like a desktop metaphor thing. Delete(using rm) doesn't normally move anything to a trash directory, it just removes it.

Last edited by mudangel; 02-05-2010 at 01:22 PM. Reason: removed an "a"
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-05-2010, 12:26 PM   #19
irajjs
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Smile Kill

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudangel View Post
Kill is nothing like delete. You don't "move an application to trash"; if you want to remove aan application from your system, you uninstall it.
BTW, trash(like a "trash" directory/folder) is not a linux thing, more like a desktop metaphor thing. Delete(using rm) doesn't normally move anything to a trash directory, it just removes it.
Yes,thank you, just a few minutes ago it came to my mind that kill is something like stop a process working or quit or end task(in windows),but it seems that this is not a suitable word,because kill has been used for thousands of years in case of living things,which means after a living thing is killed it dies,and decomposes, and a dead thing never can be live again,so if we kill a software or, its' active part is killed,then, that should not be able to act anymore,or become live again,then what would be the logic for choosing such a name for stopping the activity of a process?
The other problem is that when system hangs,then even mouse and keyboard stop working ,and there won,t be any possibility to type commands like kill.
 
Old 02-05-2010, 12:49 PM   #20
mattca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irajjs View Post
Hi
I am a newbie,but i have noticed that,giving some wrong commands or clicking on an unexpected or wrong place (choice) sometimes acts as a bug and causes the whole desktop or just the window (application) to stop working normally (hangs),so if the whole OS hangs and even ctrl+alt+del or ctrl+c.... doesn,t work,then user has to reboot by using hardware or shut down ....which some times causes some disorders as its result.
My suggestion is to make and install a software to be able to recognize this wrong behavior and stop continuing the activity to prevent hanging,and then confirm about user choice and make warnings,and then if user insists ...it may go on !
Regards
it's pretty rare for a problem to lock up a linux system so badly that it needs to be rebooted. at the very least, alt-ctrl-<f1 - f6> should get you to a virtual terminal so you can kill whatever process has locked up the system. don't blame the system if you don't know how to use it.

and the software "enhancements" you're suggesting amount to mind reading. it is impossible (yes, impossible) for the computer to know if you really meant to do what you just did.

and personally, i'd be pretty creeped out if my computer could read my mind anyway...
 
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:14 PM   #21
mrrangerman
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Quote:
irajjs

Yes,thank you, just a few minutes ago it came to my mind that kill is something like stop a process working or quit or end task(in windows),but it seems that this is not a suitable word,because kill has been used for thousands of years in case of living things,which means after a living thing is killed it dies,and decomposes, and a dead thing never can be live again,so if we kill a software or, its' active part is killed,then, that should not be able to act anymore,or become live again,then what would be the logic for choosing such a name for stopping the activity of a process?
The other problem is that when system hangs,then even mouse and keyboard stop working ,and there won,t be any possibility to type commands like kill.


Kill is a perfect word for what it is doing, when you start a program you are running a instants/session of that program. When the program locks up or doesn't shut down when it should then the kill command allows you to kill that instants/session. That instants/session will never again be run you killed it, but unlike a living thing with a program you can start another instants/session of what ever program you are wanting to run, but it is a NEW instants/session NOT the one you killed.
 
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:27 PM   #22
mudangel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irajjs View Post
...so if we kill a software or, its' active part is killed,then, that should not be able to act anymore,or become live again,then what would be the logic for choosing such a name for stopping the activity of a process?
The other problem is that when system hangs,then even mouse and keyboard stop working ,and there won,t be any possibility to type commands like kill.
Think more along the lines of, say, "killing an engine(killswitch?)" than "killing a (dog, sheep, neighbor)" ;^)
#edit: mrrangerman explained it better, and earlier

Something worth trying: if you have another machine on the same network available to you, try to ssh into your "hung" system.

Last edited by mudangel; 02-05-2010 at 01:29 PM.
 
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:01 PM   #23
irajjs
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Smile provisioning and considering possibilities not mind reading

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattca View Post
it's pretty rare for a problem to lock up a linux system so badly that it needs to be rebooted. at the very least, alt-ctrl-<f1 - f6> should get you to a virtual terminal so you can kill whatever process has locked up the system. don't blame the system if you don't know how to use it.

and the software "enhancements" you're suggesting amount to mind reading. it is impossible (yes, impossible) for the computer to know if you really meant to do what you just did.

and personally, i'd be pretty creeped out if my computer could read my mind anyway...



I am not suggesting to enable software to read minds,although there are some efforts in this field,
and i think,in some cases ,already software do this to some extent !
Thank you
 
Old 02-06-2010, 02:01 AM   #24
malekmustaq
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Quote:

I am a newbie,but i have noticed that,giving some wrong commands or clicking on an unexpected or wrong place (choice) sometimes acts as a bug and causes the whole desktop or just the window (application) to stop working normally (hangs),so if the whole OS hangs and even ctrl+alt+del or ctrl+c.... doesn,t work,then user has to reboot by using hardware or shut down ....which some times causes some disorders as its result.
irajjs,

"giving some wrong commands" no one can help if the user issues (or gives) a wrong command. Linux offers more capability and power to a user, and with this power is equal responsibility. Remember: Linux does not baby-set a careless user the way we were cuddled by microsoft before. Moreover, there are examples of commands that no provisioning is either practically needed or applicable; simple examples are: (linux) # rm -fr <Enter>, or (microsoft) a:\ format C: <Enter> "y", "y".

"clicking on an unexpected or wrong place" I have not experienced this yet under any of linux distros, this is the first time I heard something like needing to reboot if clicking goes other places (on desktop?). I am not convinced that this is a bug, rather, there could be something wrong with your current setup. Maybe there is something important that was altered in your configuration.

I suggest you download an image of a Linux Mint live CD, burn it, and use it instead to repair or install a fresh OS in your machine. Newbies will sure find it very difficult to trace back changes in a Linux system much to make repairs.

Also, it is good to read the fundamentals of Linux/Unix systems in order to be able to overcome simple user challenges. Here is a tutorial, download and read it first, it is well written and has greatly help thousands of newbies in the community.

Quote:
"My suggestion is to make and install a software to be able to recognize this wrong behavior and stop continuing the activity to prevent hanging,and then confirm about user choice and make warnings,and then if user insists ...it may go on !"
Linux has these essential provisioning too, although in the real concept it is a system that forces the user to LEARN and be responsible; it doesn't care about fools and idiots who claim the right to be pampered simply because they have money to pay the OS; our linux programmers are not paid by anyone nor are you required to pay for a download of the OS image. If you love to be pamapered like a newbie forever go back to microsoft because linux is not for you.

Pardon my straight wording, but somewhere somehow someone must tell you one honest thing after two days of this unsolved thread. I sympathize you because I was too an idiot who spent the best of my younger life with MSDOS and Windows, but I have already learned to admit that this linux community and the free software world is better and more politically, socially, academically and morally righteous.

I hope this helps.

Good luck bro.

Last edited by malekmustaq; 02-06-2010 at 08:52 AM.
 
Old 02-06-2010, 04:44 PM   #25
irajjs
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Not solved,but i won,t follow that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malekmustaq View Post
irajjs,

"giving some wrong commands" no one can help if the user issues (or gives) a wrong command. Linux offers more capability and power to a user, and with this power is equal responsibility. Remember: Linux does not baby-set a careless user the way we were cuddled by microsoft before. Moreover, there are examples of commands that no provisioning is either practically needed or applicable; simple examples are: (linux) # rm -fr <Enter>, or (microsoft) a:\ format C: <Enter> "y", "y".

"clicking on an unexpected or wrong place" I have not experienced this yet under any of linux distros, this is the first time I heard something like needing to reboot if clicking goes other places (on desktop?). I am not convinced that this is a bug, rather, there could be something wrong with your current setup. Maybe there is something important that was altered in your configuration.

I suggest you download an image of a Linux Mint live CD, burn it, and use it instead to repair or install a fresh OS in your machine. Newbies will sure find it very difficult to trace back changes in a Linux system much to make repairs.

Also, it is good to read the fundamentals of Linux/Unix systems in order to be able to overcome simple user challenges. Here is a tutorial, download and read it first, it is well written and has greatly help thousands of newbies in the community.



Linux has these essential provisioning too, although in the real concept it is a system that forces the user to LEARN and be responsible; it doesn't care about fools and idiots who claim the right to be pampered simply because they have money to pay the OS; our linux programmers are not paid by anyone nor are you required to pay for a download of the OS image. If you love to be pamapered like a newbie forever go back to microsoft because linux is not for you.

Pardon my straight wording, but somewhere somehow someone must tell you one honest thing after two days of this unsolved thread. I sympathize you because I was too an idiot who spent the best of my younger life with MSDOS and Windows, but I have already learned to admit that this linux community and the free software world is better and more politically, socially, academically and morally righteous.

I hope this helps.

Good luck bro.
Hi


Quote:
it doesn't care about fools and idiots who claim the right to be pampered simply because they have money to pay the OS......................................

If you love to be pamapered like a newbie forever go back to microsoft because linux is not for you.
.................................................
Pardon my straight wording, but somewhere somehow someone must tell you one honest thing after two days of this unsolved thread. I sympathize you because I was too an idiot who spent the best of my younger life ..................................................
- I do not regard myself a fool or idiot,in spite of some others who ...straightly insult! trial and error is a very difficult way of learning things,but for some people still it is the only possible way! may be my original post in this case was not clear,so, that was why i tried to make it more clear by next replies, but,probably,because of becoming a long discussion,some people prefer to read just the first post.
-Any way i am not going to follow this discussion any more, but, it my view it is not solved,and,will not be solved,until no software crashes any more,and no system failure happens.
Other people may go on discussing or leave it !
-Finally let me to decide myself about if Linux is for me too or not.
Thank you
 
Old 02-06-2010, 07:27 PM   #26
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irajjs View Post
Hi

- I do not regard myself a fool or idiot,in spite of some others who ...straightly insult! trial and error is a very difficult way of learning things,but for some people still it is the only possible way! may be my original post in this case was not clear,so, that was why i tried to make it more clear by next replies, but,probably,because of becoming a long discussion,some people prefer to read just the first post.
-Any way i am not going to follow this discussion any more, but, it my view it is not solved,and,will not be solved,until no software crashes any more,and no system failure happens.
Well, you're going to have a LONG wait. No OS, anywhere, ever, is going to be 100% crash proof, error proof, and idiot-proof. It's a machine...YOU tell IT what to do, and if you tell it wrong, it only does what you tell it. You are simply, still, missing the point.
Quote:
Other people may go on discussing or leave it !
-Finally let me to decide myself about if Linux is for me too or not.
True...but since you know Windows so well, you should stick with it, since it's 'crash-free', like you're wanting....
 
  


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