Slackware Dual Boot Questions
 

I want to dual boot XP and Slackware, however, I want to completely reformat before I do the operation. On to the questions.

After I reformat, which should I install first, XP or Slackware? I've never done this before, so whichever makes the partitioning easier would be preferable.

I'm still not sure how I can make my files available to both Slackware and XP. Does the file system need to be FAT32 in order for this to happen? Does my entire C: drive need to be formatted in FAT32 or can it be NTFS and still work properly with Slackware? Do I need to create an extra partiton in order to do this?

Sorry if most of this is answered in the Slackware book, I've read through the installation and may not have read far enough in order to have these questions answered. If that is the case, just tell me and I'll read on.

in general, install xp first, then install linux. it's because if you install linux first and then xp, you'll have headaches with the boot issue, not the partitioning issue. to me, partitioning difficulty (or ease) in xp is the same as in linux.
linux has read write support for fat, so if you want linux to be able to write to any windows partition, that partition should be fat. linux ntfs write support is very limited right now.
my personal system has C: on ntfs and another partition on fat so linux can write to it. you can also make one big fat partition for windows, but it's your taste.

Let's say I make another partition just FAT32. If I boot into Windows after I've created that extra partition, it will show up in My Computer as another hard drive/partition, correct?

Yes... that's why you make an extra FAT32 partition, after all-- to share files between Slackware and Windows (as both OSes can read and write to that FS reliably).

Alright, thanks. Another question, why is it necessary to resize the Windows partition before installing Slackware and what way is the best?

It is not necessarily necessary... unless you are using Windows 2K or XP, which both use the NTFS filesystem by default, which most Linux installers are unable to resize during the install process.

Secondarily, even if you are using FAT32, the installer may be unable to resize the partitions, usually due to fragmentation.

So it's usually best to defragment your Windows partitions before attempting the install, and since you're already working with the partitions in Windows, you might as well resize them using the Windows tools anyway (especially since you have no other choice if they are NTFS partitions).

Leave the newly-freed space unallocated, and you can let the installer partition it as it finds appropriate (or you can do it manually).

My rule-of-thumb is: Windows tools for Windows partitions, Linux tools for Linux partitions. Some tools under both OSes are cross-platform, but in actual practice (and my experience), partition tools work best with the filesystems native to the OS they are designed to run on, and I just feel more secure keeping it that way.

I'm using XP and right now my entire 40gb C: drive is an XP partition with an NTFS file system. Would I be better off using a tool such as Partition Magic to resize the partition or are the Windows tools the easiest way to go? Also, I was looking under disk management and didn't see any options to resize the partition, so it would be great if you could specifically tell me what I need to do in order to correctly resize the partition. I am going to completely reformat XP do before I do any kind of dual boot installation.

If you're going to "completely reformat XP", then you don't have to worry much about resizing anything at all. Boot from Partition Magic's Rescue disks to resize the NTFS partition, or delete it completely (which I would suggest). Make a new NTFS (or FAT32; Windows can reformat it to NTFS, and I don't know how reliable PM is to make NTFS partitions) partition of the size you want to use for XP. Leave the rest of the space (that you want to use for Linux) unallocated. Reinstall Windows to the Windows fs partiton normally. Install Linux to the unpartitioned space using either automatic patitioning (if you don't want to deal with cfdisk) or custom partitioning (if you feel comfortable making the new partitions yourself).

That's about all I can tell you as I have never used XP, and my memory of how to do these things using the native Win2k tools is fading fast. If you have Partition Magic already, I would suggest using it anyway, as it's a much more full-featured tool.

Thanks. Since I have a 40gb hdd, should I allocate 15gb to windows, 15gb to the Linux swap and /root partitions, and 10gb to a FAT32 shared folder that could be written to by both XP and Slackware? I know there are many other ways to do this, so if anyone has a better configuration or another method besides using PM to resize XP, please, don't hesitate to share.

i don't think you're gonna need 15 gb for linux. also, i think you meant the root directory /, not /root. i think only allocate to / about 5 gb, swap about .5 to 1 gb (depending on how much RAM you have). the the rest is however you like them. however, i always leave some unpartitioned space (or partitioned but not used so i can reformat it without having to back up), in case i'll need it later. who knows, for example, you might find that gentoo does something better than slackware, and you want to install gentoo, too.

I'm planning on doing a full install, so would the 5gb for the root directory still be ok? Also, I think PM has its own bootloader, I don't have PM, but if I get it, will I still be able to use GRUB or LILO over BootMagic, and if so, is GRUB or LILO superior to BootMagic?

Yes, in all of the above.

A full install of Slack 10 is about 3 GB of space, so it should be fine. Personally, I would give a bit more (I like to have some "breather" space) but it really isn't necessary.

BootMagic is an optional, seperate program from PartitionMagic, which does come on the same CD, so you can use one with or without the other.

I've also used all three bootloaders (GRUB, Lilo, and BootMagic), and I have found GRUB and Lilo to be superior to BootMagic. GRUB supports better booting of Windows and other OS's then Lilo, but both open source programs function well in most environments. I would almost certainly go with GRUB over BootMagic, not only because it's much more customizeable and functional, but using GRUB supports open source software as well. :)

BootMagic is included with Partition Magic, but not part of it; you can use one without the other.

You can really only have one bootloader active at any given time: the Windows bootloader (which cannot recognize Linux), GRUB or LiLO (either of which can recognize Windows and will probably create a menu entry for it on their install), or a third-party bootloader such as Boot Magic.

Superiority is not really a question; all bootloaders do their job adequately (leaving aside the Windows bootloader, which only boots Windows, but maybe you want to boot Linux from a floppy and not disturb the Windows bootloader for other users of the machine). GRUB and LiLO are both perfectly fine for a dual-boot setup; some prefer one over the other for various reasons, but whichever one your distro chooses to offer as the default is perfectly OK.

A third-party Windows bootloader has both pros and cons: it mostly depends on what you need. It's nice that you can make rescue disks for it, so that makes it much easier to repair in the event of problems. On the other hand, it's essentially a Windows program, which means that you have to get into Windows to install and configure it in the first place. And there can be some scary-looking, but ultimately minor, bumps on the road with respect to the native Linux bootloaders, depending on the distro.

It's really up to you.

As to the 5 GB for the root directory...I'd go for about 7 or 8 myself, in order to have room to install extra stuff as you learn what's available and perhaps want to try it out.

Whether you really need 10 GB for a shared partition is more the question, but of course only you can know how many files you'd be planning to keep there. I would consider making /home a separate partition of 2-3 GB (again, depending on what you might want to be keeping there; the config files usually kept there don't take up much space, but things like your email and downloaded files might, if you don't pipe them to that shared partition instead).

To be honest, and with no disrespect intended, don't get all worked up about this planning, because you're likely going to get it wrong in some respects this time around.

We all do.

There's no way around it, because you don't know anything about Linux, you don't know how you're going to use a Linux system, and you don't know how your usage patterns are going to change when doing the simple common Windows tasks you are used to requires a complete reboot-- it might just be easier (and more pleasant) to figure out how to do the same task in Linux, for example.

Until you know how this is all going to work for you, you really can't know how to prepare for it effectively, so just take your best guess and go for it. Just don't expect this to be permanent (and keep good backups), because for all you know, you might well decide that you don't like the distro you chose (or you'll hear about another that sounds enticing), and you'll wipe the slate clean anyway to install that instead.

This is a learning experience, after all, so don't worry about getting everything "right" right out of the box. Probably not going to happen, and also not the point of the exercise. As long as you've got backups, you're golden.

Thanks, I appreciate it. So would PM be the best way to go as far as creating and resizing partitions is concerned? I know there are several freeware utilities available, but would like some recommendations.

As far as creating partitions, fdisk or cfdisk work just fine. Resizing Fat32 or NTFS, on the other hand, is a much more difficult thing to do. I would recommend PartitionMagic for those tasks. I don't know of any open source programs that can do that (yet).

I'll probably end up getting PM on ebay or something, but does the fact that I'm most likely going to reformat the hdd mean that I won't need to resize at all? Is there a way to go in and create a Windows and Linux partition directly after reformatting before anything shows up automatically after installing Windows?

If the PM CD is bootable (which it might well be), I don't see why not; otherwise, you can install the program before you wipe Windows and use the installed program to make the PM Rescue Disks. Those definitely are bootable (as they are intended to help you repair partitions that have been damaged to such an extent that you can't get to the installed program) so you can boot from those. That will enable you to run PM from the floppies, and you can delete and repartition to your heart's content.

I left something out, sorry. What I meant to say was is that after I completely reformat, is there a program besides PM that I can use to create partitions so I won't need to resize anything.

Also, I know there is a feature in PM called, "Install Another OS", would you recommend this or just recommend creating the partitions manually instead?

Fdisk is available on the boot disks for both Windows and Linux. Different programs, of course, under the two OSes. The Linux installers also have partition managers (fdisk, cfdisk and sometimes one other whose name I forget); there's nothing wrong with running a Linux install up to the part where you partiton the drive(s), then partiitoning the drives using the Linux tool, saving the new partition table, and then hitting the Reset button on the front of the box to reboot to the Windows CD so you can install Windows.

No, do not use any such PM feature where it tries to create some "dedicated" partition for any OS that is not Windows. Really, you want to do as little as possible with PM to create or manage Linux partitions; overall, you'd do better to just create the Windows partition of the correct size and leave the rest of the space unallocated so that the Linux installer can partition it automatically or manually, as you choose.

But there is no way to know that "you won't have to resize anything" in the future. You're starting from a clean slate, no matter what partition manager you use to pre-create the partitions that you're going to install these two OSes to, you're going to be guessing as to what seems like the best partition layout is going to be.

And like I said, you're probably going to find out that you were wrong once you actually start using the layout and discover that one partition is much bigger than it needs to be, and another is smaller than what you really need once you start using the system. And you're going to have to repartition, which in the current state of affairs in terms of your experience and knowledge, is going to mean a wipe and recreation of the Linux partitions (not the Windows or FAT32 shared partitions), because there is no reasonable, easy-peasy, and perfectly safe way at this stage of your migration to resize a Linux partition that is in use (not that managing partitions is really ever safe, but PM under Windows will really fool you into thinking it is). You will be able to resize the Windows fs partitions using PM to give you more space for newly-created Linux partitons, but that's about it.

I mean, look at my sig. I've been through a lot of distros, and I do have quite a lot of experience with setting up dual-boots (and even multiboots) on a single box. I am, now, after almost a year and a half since I started with my first Linux distro, about to repartition for what I know is going to be the very last time, because I am going to set up my partitions in L(ogical)V(olume)M(anagement) groups, which will allow me to resize partitions on a running system without endangering the partition table so that the bootloader doesn't know where the fs starts and ends anymore. But at this time this option is not available to you, as it was not available to me in my first install, as it's taken me all this time to learn that this possibility exists, and develop the confidence to take advantage of it. You don't want to know how many times I have repartitioned in that first year of trying all those distros listed below... because my best guess as to the best partition layout for my needs turned out not to be quite good enough for what it turned out that I wanted, but didn't know I wanted at the time.

This is how I know that you can't know what you want right now either. It's impossible. Do your best, take your best guess, but don't get attached to the idea that now you did that, you're done and won't have to do it again fairly soon.

Keep backups. And keep as much volatile data such as downloads, personal files like art you're working on, or the Greatest Novel of All Time (In Progress), your email-- anything unrelated to the OS that you want to be reasonably sure is out of danger from any possible future deletion of the partition-- as possible on the shared FAT32 partition. That really makes the likelihood that you will have to repartition at some point much less problematic.

I really, really appreciate this. Your time is invaluable, thank you so much. I just turned 15, so at this point I just want to learn, and you, this forum, and forums like this have made that opportunity available to me, thanks again.

If I'm thinking correctly, when you mentioned that I could run the Linux installer up to the point where I can save the partition table, would I just need at that time to create 1 large partition to accomodate Windows before rebooting? Then, after that, will the Windows installer be able to recognize that partition and/or give me the option to use that partition to install Windows to?

Yes, that's generally the idea of what you'd want to do no matter what method you used to create the new partition; 1 NTFS or FAT32 partition (Windows will ask you what fs you want to use on it anyway, just so long as its some native Windows fs) of a specified size (let's say, for this example, 10 GB of a 40GB total size disk) for the Windows system root install, and a second FAT32 partition of (let us say, for this example) a second 10 GB FAT32 partition for files that must be readable between both OSes.

Naturally, if you're dong this with a Linux installer, you can also make Linux partitions at this time, but you can also leave that for the real install, and I think that's a good idea-- doing only one thing at a time is a very wise policy when messing around with partitions and preparing to install two OSes.

So that would give you 2 Windows-native fs partitions of 10 GB each, and 20 GB unallocated space. When you then rebooted with the Windows CD in the drive, and went to install Windows, it would find an available C:\ and D:\, and will ask you where you want to install Windows, and do you want to reformat the chosen partition to NTFS, format it to FAT32 (yes, you can install even Win 2K and XP to FAT32 partitions if you so desire), or leave it as whatever FS it currently is.

Even if you have created it as NTFS (let us say), and that's the fs you want to use ultimately, I would still suggest letting the Windows installer reformat it to NTFS. Of course, I'm just very picky about what tools I want messing with my partitions, and further, I don't trust Windows... I always suspect that there may be some "extra" code somehow that makes an NTFS partition formatted by Windows itself slightly different or more "legitimate" to Windows than an NTFS partition formatted by any other partitioning tool, even one so good as PM. FAT32 is much more "stupid" (or less complex, anyway), so I don't worry so much about those.

Admittedly, I feel pretty much the same way about Linux partitions being formatted by any other tool than a Linux one, again hinging on the complexity of the fs; I'd let PM create ext 2 and swap partitions, but never ext3 (which is journalled, as is NTFS), and I would always use a native Linux partitioner (the one included in the installer) to reformat the "final" partiton to ext3 or whatever fs I was actually going to use (I don't use ext2, because it's not journalled, and there's no point in not using a journalled fs if it's available and appropriate for the situation).

Keep in mind when creating your Windows partitions that if you are going to be using NTFS for the system root, you won't be able to reliably write to it under Linux, so if there are also programs that you might want to use under both OSes (via Wine or Crossover Office), that you will be wanting to install those to D:\ (the shared FAT32 partition) as well, not to C:\Program Files, so plan appropriately. Applications, when run, write their settings to initialization files that are often contained in the program folder; in addition, many programs and games have configuration files in their program folders that you might want to edit for some reason-- and you will not necessarily be able to do so if those files were mounted from an NTFS partition.

Don't forget to take that into consideration when planning your partition sizes (you need room not just for all the MP3s, but also for Microsoft Office and Far Cry, for example).

You see why I say "take your best guess, but there's a good chance you'll be wrong?" ;)

Thanks for the nice compliment, too.