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Old 11-10-2011, 06:39 PM   #1
Tecolote
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SATA chipsets list


https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.ph...dware_features
is link given at:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html
but it goes nowhere...anyone have current link? Also, linuxmafia says "Some SATA chipsets have been supported forever". I'm assuming such chipsets are listed on motherboards at Asus & Gigabyte sites, but not sure where...advice?

Last edited by Tecolote; 11-10-2011 at 06:47 PM. Reason: messed up the link
 
Old 11-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #2
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What chipset are you looking at?
I've built a lot of Linux machines and have never run into an incompatibility problem with the SATA controller. I'm sure there are a couple that have problems, but it's going to be rare.
 
Old 11-10-2011, 07:26 PM   #3
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I'm not quite sure what you are looking for....

If its SATA hardware features, they havent really changed.

If its motherobards with SATA support under linux, that is farily easy. The Intel ICH* southbridges and newer Intel 'iX' chipsets support SATA under linux. With AMD, SB6** SB7**, SB8** and SB9** southbridges support SATA under linux. (SB*** southbridges are found on all current ATI/AMD chipset boards).

While you will find lots of motherboards that have 'extra' SATA controllers, almost all of them are junk, even under windows. Under linux they are generally terrible....just use the intel or AMD SATA controllers (well, unless you want/need real hardware raid, but you wont be finding that on non-server motherboards).
 
Old 11-10-2011, 07:43 PM   #4
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https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/
See if that has what you're looking for.
 
Old 11-10-2011, 07:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
What chipset are you looking at?
I've built a lot of Linux machines and have never run into an incompatibility problem with the SATA controller. I'm sure there are a couple that have problems, but it's going to be rare.
You haven't built too many than
Some LSI, and JMicron chipsets have known issues. Anything from bad/wrong NCQ parameters, borked ATAPI protocol (Nvidia MCP's are famous for this), incompatibilities on 1.5 chips with some 3.0 drives ..... <-- These are mainly the 'extra' SATA controllers suicidaleggroll was talking about.

Stick with a chipset that is 100% AHCI compliant, and there usually is not a problem. Thankfully, most integrated controllers on motherboards manufactured in the last 2 years are 100% AHCI compliant.
 
Old 11-10-2011, 10:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbed1 View Post
You haven't built too many than
Some LSI, and JMicron chipsets have known issues. Anything from bad/wrong NCQ parameters, borked ATAPI protocol (Nvidia MCP's are famous for this), incompatibilities on 1.5 chips with some 3.0 drives ..... <-- These are mainly the 'extra' SATA controllers suicidaleggroll was talking about.
Those aren't Linux incompatibilities, those are hardware problems/bugs that will have issues regardless of the OS.

The OP was asking about controllers that were supported in Linux, implying there are some controllers out there that are designed correctly and work in other OSs, but aren't supported in Linux, of which I've never found any.
 
Old 11-13-2011, 05:13 PM   #7
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Haven't got that far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
What chipset are you looking at?
I've built a lot of Linux machines and have never run into an incompatibility problem with the SATA controller. I'm sure there are a couple that have problems, but it's going to be rare.
Right now just eliminating motherboards on my 'shortlist' for AMD Phenom II x6 1075T. Just found out about chipsets problem, and added it to list of criteria (meaning motherboard chosen must now also have SATA chipset that has "been supported forever").
 
Old 11-13-2011, 05:21 PM   #8
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Let's see if I understand this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
I'm not quite sure what you are looking for....

If its SATA hardware features, they havent really changed.

If its motherobards with SATA support under linux, that is farily easy. The Intel ICH* southbridges and newer Intel 'iX' chipsets support SATA under linux. With AMD, SB6** SB7**, SB8** and SB9** southbridges support SATA under linux. (SB*** southbridges are found on all current ATI/AMD chipset boards).

While you will find lots of motherboards that have 'extra' SATA controllers, almost all of them are junk, even under windows. Under linux they are generally terrible....just use the intel or AMD SATA controllers (well, unless you want/need real hardware raid, but you wont be finding that on non-server motherboards).
so we will take one motherboard I'm considering as example:
http://uk.gigabyte.com/products/prod...?pid=3517&dl=1
and in case I screwed up that link, its GA-870A-UD3. So I look at the 'chipset' column, which lists 'South Bridge' as AMD SB850.You wrote that "SB8**" indicates SATA support under Linux, so I assume I have a green light with GA-870A-UD3,right?
 
Old 11-14-2011, 02:25 AM   #9
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I've run linux on a GA-870A-UD3.

As long as you arent planning on using a very old distro (eg, RHEL 5.X) the 870/SB850 chipset should get full support. (even then is possible that the 870/SB850 chip will work, I havent really checked if RHEL 5.X does have support for the SB850 or backward compatibility if it doesnt)

BTW, its a pity that the GA-870A-USB3 is hard to find, in some ways I'd prefer it to the GA-870A-UD3- less add-on crap like JMicron JMB362 eSATA chips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicidaleggroll View Post
Those aren't Linux incompatibilities, those are hardware problems/bugs that will have issues regardless of the OS.

The OP was asking about controllers that were supported in Linux, implying there are some controllers out there that are designed correctly and work in other OSs, but aren't supported in Linux, of which I've never found any.
AFAIK there are more problems with linux and some of those controllers (mainly JMicron, stuff like that) than there is with windows. I know I've used some eSATA port that was a bit dodgy under windows, butworked. With linux it was unuseble. Been so long that I cant be sure what controller it was, but I *think* it was JMicron (suprise, suprise).

Sure, with stuff like the nVidia making 'cut down' chipsets with missing SATA features (mainly done to 'push' people to the more expensive nVidia chipsets) its a technical limit, and is OS-agnostic.

Last edited by cascade9; 11-15-2011 at 10:49 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old 11-15-2011, 04:57 PM   #10
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So did I understand what you were saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
I've run linux on a GA-870A-UD3.

As long as you arent planning on using a very old distro (eg, RHEL 5.X) the 870/SB850 chipset should get full support. (even then is possible that the 870/SB850 chip will work, I havent really checked if RHEL 5.X does have support for the SB850 or backward compatibility if it doesnt)

BTW, its a pity that the GA-870A-USB3 is hard to find, in some ways I'd prefer it to the GA-870A-UD3- less add-on crap like JMicron JMB362 eSATA chips.



AFAIK there are more problems with linux and some of those controllers (mainly JMicron, stuff like that) than there is with windows. I know I've used some eSATA port that was a bit dodgy under windows, butworked. With linux it was unsable. Been so long that I cant be sure what controller it was, but I *think* it was JMicron (suprise, suprise).

Sure, with stuff like the nVidia making 'cut down' chipsets with missing SATA features (mainly done to 'push' people to the more expensive nVidia chipsets) its a technical limit, and is OS-agnostic.

about "With AMD SB6**, SB7**,"? If so, I"ll use this method to start eliminating motherboards! It all depends on what you consider "very old distro". I want to use KDE or Gnome whenever possible, but detest Gnome version 3,and KDE version 4,so will not touch any distro release with either. That means some releases I'll be using will not be the most current. I'm in process of buying these CDs/DVDs:
Ultimate Edition**
PinguyOS**
Simply Mepis 8.0
(Amnesiac) Incognito**
Toorox
NetSecL**
Polippix 2.1*
Anonym.OS
Vatlator 2.0*
Those marked with ** use either KDE or Gnome, but unable to find out the version, so I will not proceed until I'm sure I can avoid KDE4/Gnome3. Those marked * I'm unable to find out which desktop they useat all. Those not marked either use Gnome2,KDE3, or different desktop, so I'll be buying these ASAP. As for GA-870A-UD3 being hard to find, seems all motherboards on my list are discontinued, out-of-stock, or otherwise elusive, so I'm used to playing bloodhound! Regarding eSATA and Linux, what do I need to know? I do not absolutely require Linux to handle eSATA, but would be better if it would! Also, a couple motherboards on list use nVIDIA chipsets...you have method to avoid cut down chipsets?
 
Old 11-15-2011, 11:54 PM   #11
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KDE 4.X has been around so long that pretty much all KDE distros use it.

Gnome 2.X is dead. While you will find some distros that still have gnome 2.X, your looking at the last of them. Pretty much all distros released from now on with gnome will use gnome 3.

Exception- there is 'trinty', a KDE 3.X fork and 'mate desktop' a gnome 2.X fork (both made to keep projects going that no longer have support from the original teams).

http://www.trinitydesktop.org/
https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment

IMO you should check out Xfce/Lxde, and some of the other desktops.

Just checked a few of the distros-

Polippix 2.1- KDE 4.X
NetSecL- hasnt used KDE as a defualt deskto since 2008. Current version used LXDE, 3.0 uses Gnome 2.X.
Toorox- uses KDE 4.X (there was 2 versions with gnome 2.X. Current releases has gnome 3)
Simply Mepis 8.0- used KDE 3.X, but if its not 'end of life' yet, but since it will be soon (based on debian stable 5.0. Debian used to drop 'old stable' 1 year after 'new stable' wasreleased, and debian 6.0 came out in feb 2011).

A couple for them are hard to get info on (eg Vatlator 2.0).

Mepis 8.0 might well have issues with SB8**, debian 5.0 is pretty old, older than the release of the SB8** souhbridge.It all depends on backward comptibility. Everything else as far as I can see should be OK with SB8** no matter what (mind you, it would depend on the version with some of them).

If you want to run 'obsolete' desktops like KDE 3.X/trinity, or Gnome 2.X/mate, IMO you are far better off looking at some of the bigger, more 'technical' distros (that doesnt make them hard). Slackware and debian for sure, maybe arch or gentoo. Its easier to get slackware or debian to use 'odd' setups like trinty/mate, they are more likely to have support and the packages in the repos (or easy access to the packages by another method)

SB7** and SB8** should do eSATA (you just have to change an interal port to external, not hard, alls thats needed is a the cabling for SATA-eSATA, and a backplate if your case doesnt have an eSATA port). I think even SB6** should do eSATA, never really hada good look.

Its getting pretty hard to impossible to find a board with a SB6** southbridge new these days. SB7** is still around, but mostly on older stock or the real cheap junk.

BTW, you seemt o have some basic plan/setup you want to run- how about posting it (and maybe your location as well).

Last edited by cascade9; 11-18-2011 at 04:00 AM.
 
Old 11-17-2011, 07:29 PM   #12
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Many thanks for your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
KDE 4.X has been around so long that pretty much all KDE distros use it.

Gnome 2.X is dead. While you will find some distros that still have gnome 2.X, your looking at the last of them. Pretty much all distros released from now on with gnome will use gnome 3.

Exception- there is 'trinty', a KDE 3.X fork and 'mate desktop' a gnome 2.X fork (both made to keep projects going that no longer have support from the original teams).

http://www.trinitydesktop.org/
https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment

IMO you should check out Xfce/Lxde, and some of the other desktops.

Just checked a few of the distros-

Polippix 2.1- KDE 4.X
NetSecL- hasnt used KDE as a defualt deskto since 2008. Current version used LXDE, 3.0 uses Gnome 2.X.
Toorox- uses KDE 4.X (there was 2 versions with gnome 2.X. Current releases has gnome 3)
Simply Mepis 8.0- used KDE 3.X, but if its not 'end of life' yet, but since it will be soon (based on debian stable 5.0. Debian used to drop 'old stable' 1 year after 'new stable' wasreleased, and debian 6.0 came out in feb 2011).

A couple for them are hard to get info on (Vatlator 2.0) and a couple

Mepis 8.0 might well have issues with SB8**, debian 5.0 is pretty old, older than the release of the SB8** souhbridge.It all depends on backward comptibility. Everything else as far as I can see should be OK with SB8** no matter what (mind you, it would depend on the version with some of them).

If you want to run 'obsolete' desktops like KDE 3.X/trinity, or Gnome 2.X/mate, IMO you are far better off looking at some of the bigger, more 'technical' distros (that doesnt make them hard). Slackware and debian for sure, maybe arch or gentoo. Its easier to get slackware or debian to use 'odd' setups like trinty/mate, they are more likely to have support and the packages in the repos (or easy access to the packages by another method)

SB7** and SB8** should do eSATA (you just have to change an interal port to external, not hard, alls thats needed is a the cabling for SATA-eSATA, and a backplate if your case doesnt have an eSATA port). I think even SB6** should do eSATA, never really hada good look.

Its getting pretty hard to impossible to find a board with a SB6** southbridge new these days. SB7** is still around, but mostly on older stock or the real cheap junk.

BTW, you seemt o have some basic plan/setup you want to run- how about posting it (and maybe your location as well).
While my Google research has failed to answer the question of which release to buy of my targeted distros having KDE 3 or Gnome 2, it has made me aware that a pernicious effort is underway to remove the ability to choose these versions over KDE 4 & Gnome 3. Which is why I'm trying to acquire these CDs/DVDs before my hardware research is fully done.

I'm aware of the other desktops. Damn Small Linux has JWM or Fluxbox. Evil Entity 2.5 has Enlightenment. Fortress Linux has XFCE, LXDE, & Openbox. All are on my trial list, so I'm not totally opposed to strange desktops. I just think Gnome will be easier for me to teach myself, and for KDE...the more I find out about it the more I like it. In opposition, I never liked Gnome 3 or KDE 4 from the start, and the more I see and read, the less inclined I am to like it. My research indicates I'm not the only one either.

Right now, finding out about Linux Mint, Ultimate Edition,and PinguyOS is the top priority (i.e. which distro release is the latest/most recent one having KDE 3 and/or Gnome 2). One of these three will become my primary, so I need to move quickly to buy proper DVDs/CDs of these before its too late. Thanks for telling me about Mepis...I'll move it up to top priority also!

My location is Bay Area California. I've not posted my setup yet as its still in flux. Hardware research is about 80% done, but could change as new info becomes available. For example, your tip about the motherboard southbridge chips means some motherboards I was considering were eliminated, a few others I never considered were added, and your info on eSATA also rearranges list preference. I'm not sure its wise to post my planned build just yet, least something causes a radical overhaul. I can say that this one thing has not changed since the beginning. I fully intend on having at least two (probably three) hard disk drives...at least one (maybe all) mobile-rack type. I will require XP Pro on one hard disc (maybe with BrowserLinux on partition). It is the OS I taught myself to use at library; without it my PC will be a useless overlarge paperweight, til I can teach myself Linux or Windows 2000, so no choice there.
 
Old 11-17-2011, 07:38 PM   #13
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Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbed1 View Post
https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/
See if that has what you're looking for.
Not sure what to make of it...definitely not made for newbies! I think it will take alot of Google research before I will understand much. I'll print it out, put in in hardware (or is it software?) binder for later reference.
 
Old 11-18-2011, 04:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecolote View Post
While my Google research has failed to answer the question of which release to buy of my targeted distros having KDE 3 or Gnome 2, it has made me aware that a pernicious effort is underway to remove the ability to choose these versions over KDE 4 & Gnome 3. Which is why I'm trying to acquire these CDs/DVDs before my hardware research is fully done.
'Pernicious', not really. But lots of people have that opinion.

The KDE and gnome devs have both dropped support for versions you want to run (KDE 3.X and Gnome 2.X), in the case of KDE 3.X support was dropped ages ago. Gnome 2.X is in midst of being dropped for Gnome 3, and while that process is ongoing you can still find gnome 2.X distros/versions of distros. But it is only a question of time untill Gnome 2.X is no more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecolote View Post
I'm aware of the other desktops. Damn Small Linux has JWM or Fluxbox. Evil Entity 2.5 has Enlightenment. Fortress Linux has XFCE, LXDE, & Openbox. All are on my trial list, so I'm not totally opposed to strange desktops. I just think Gnome will be easier for me to teach myself, and for KDE...the more I find out about it the more I like it. In opposition, I never liked Gnome 3 or KDE 4 from the start, and the more I see and read, the less inclined I am to like it. My research indicates I'm not the only one either.
Why do you think that gnome would be asier to learn to use? If you havent had enough experience that you are still in the 'learn to use' stage, dont not even bother with gnome 2.X IMO. Its just asking to make your life more difficult in the future, due to gnome 2.X being dropped.

Try Xfce, its very easy to learn, and wont be dropped anytime soon.

I dont know where you are getting your list of distros to try, some of them seem to be among the usual suspects when someone asks for a 'beginners' linux distor (Linux Mint, PinguyOS, Ultimate Edition). Some of them are old, and some of them are dead-

Quote:
EvilEntity Linux
Status: Discontinued
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...ion=evilentity

The only EvilEntity version even listed at distrowatch is 0.2.5, relased 2003/01/25. That is over 8.5 years old, a very long time in the world of linux distros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecolote View Post
Right now, finding out about Linux Mint, Ultimate Edition,and PinguyOS is the top priority (i.e. which distro release is the latest/most recent one having KDE 3 and/or Gnome 2). One of these three will become my primary, so I need to move quickly to buy proper DVDs/CDs of these before its too late. Thanks for telling me about Mepis...I'll move it up to top priority also!
Umm.....wires crossed maybe? Mepis 8.0 does have KDE 3.X, but it will be out of support soon (probably feb 2012). IMO its not even worth trying to get a copy to run it for less than 4 months....Later versions of mepis will have KDE 4.X.

PingyOS, Ultimate Edition and Linux Mint are all based on ubuntu. Ubuntu used to use Gnome 2.X, but is slowly changing to 'unity' (a different desktop). Mint probably wont be going to unity anytime soon, though that could change in the future. It probably will move to gnome 3.

PingyOS 11.04 uses gnome 2.X, but the new 11.10beta version is using gnome 3.

Ultimate edition has had some serious issues lately, mainly political IIRC. The current version (2.9) uses gnome 2.X, but when (if!) there is an updated version based on ubuntu 11.10 or later, it will be using unity and/or gnome 3 as well. BTW, 2.9 is based on ubuntu 10.10, due to the ubuntu lifecycle 2.9 will only be supported till april 2012. Again, IMO its not worth even getting a CD/DVD for a distro that will be end of life in less than 6 months....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecolote View Post
My location is Bay Area California. I've not posted my setup yet as its still in flux. Hardware research is about 80% done, but could change as new info becomes available. For example, your tip about the motherboard southbridge chips means some motherboards I was considering were eliminated, a few others I never considered were added, and your info on eSATA also rearranges list preference. I'm not sure its wise to post my planned build just yet, least something causes a radical overhaul. I can say that this one thing has not changed since the beginning. I fully intend on having at least two (probably three) hard disk drives...at least one (maybe all) mobile-rack type. I will require XP Pro on one hard disc (maybe with BrowserLinux on partition). It is the OS I taught myself to use at library; without it my PC will be a useless overlarge paperweight, til I can teach myself Linux or Windows 2000, so no choice there.
Windows 2000 is out of support (no more security fixes) so its not an option anymore-

Quote:
Support for Windows 2000 ended on July 13, 2010!
http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1131

You want XP Pro? Better get a floppy drive, or learn to mod an install disc with nlite. XP doesnt support AHCI mode with newer SATA drives 'out of the box', so unles the driver is aded with nlite or loaded from a floppy dueing the install process, you will need to use 'IDE mdoe' for your SATA HDDs and optical drives. IDE mode 'cripples' SATA, not only making it slightly slower but also removing features like hotswapping (which you will need for attaching or removing STA HDDs on the fly).

Hopefully you didnt discard 8**/SB850 chipset boards due to my advice......

Rather than running around trying to get gnome 2.X distros with limited life remaining, or possibly out of support already, I'd suggest trying debian 6.0. You can get Xfce 'out of the box' if you get the 'right' install CD. By defualt it uses gnome 2.X, but I still think its crazy to 'get used to gnome 2.X' now. Trinity (KDE 3.X fork) is an easy install.

Debian 6.0 should work just fine with SB850 southbridges.

BTW, I did some checking, the SB6**/7**/8** (and even SB9**) should work with any kernel version 2.6.25+ (which is very, very old as far as linux kernels go).

Last edited by cascade9; 11-18-2011 at 04:02 AM. Reason: typo
 
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
'Pernicious', not really. But lots of people have that opinion.

The KDE and gnome devs have both dropped support for versions you want to run (KDE 3.X and Gnome 2.X), in the case of KDE 3.X support was dropped ages ago. Gnome 2.X is in midst of being dropped for Gnome 3, and while that process is ongoing you can still find gnome 2.X distros/versions of distros. But it is only a question of time untill Gnome 2.X is no more.



Why do you think that gnome would be asier to learn to use? If you havent had enough experience that you are still in the 'learn to use' stage, dont not even bother with gnome 2.X IMO. Its just asking to make your life more difficult in the future, due to gnome 2.X being dropped.

Try Xfce, its very easy to learn, and wont be dropped anytime soon.

I dont know where you are getting your list of distros to try, some of them seem to be among the usual suspects when someone asks for a 'beginners' linux distor (Linux Mint, PinguyOS, Ultimate Edition). Some of them are old, and some of them are dead-



http://distrowatch.com/table.php?dis...ion=evilentity

The only EvilEntity version even listed at distrowatch is 0.2.5, relased 2003/01/25. That is over 8.5 years old, a very long time in the world of linux distros.



Umm.....wires crossed maybe? Mepis 8.0 does have KDE 3.X, but it will be out of support soon (probably feb 2012). IMO its not even worth trying to get a copy to run it for less than 4 months....Later versions of mepis will have KDE 4.X.

PingyOS, Ultimate Edition and Linux Mint are all based on ubuntu. Ubuntu used to use Gnome 2.X, but is slowly changing to 'unity' (a different desktop). Mint probably wont be going to unity anytime soon, though that could change in the future. It probably will move to gnome 3.

PingyOS 11.04 uses gnome 2.X, but the new 11.10beta version is using gnome 3.

Ultimate edition has had some serious issues lately, mainly political IIRC. The current version (2.9) uses gnome 2.X, but when (if!) there is an updated version based on ubuntu 11.10 or later, it will be using unity and/or gnome 3 as well. BTW, 2.9 is based on ubuntu 10.10, due to the ubuntu lifecycle 2.9 will only be supported till april 2012. Again, IMO its not worth even getting a CD/DVD for a distro that will be end of life in less than 6 months....



Windows 2000 is out of support (no more security fixes) so its not an option anymore-



http://support.microsoft.com/ph/1131

You want XP Pro? Better get a floppy drive, or learn to mod an install disc with nlite. XP doesnt support AHCI mode with newer SATA drives 'out of the box', so unles the driver is aded with nlite or loaded from a floppy dueing the install process, you will need to use 'IDE mdoe' for your SATA HDDs and optical drives. IDE mode 'cripples' SATA, not only making it slightly slower but also removing features like hotswapping (which you will need for attaching or removing STA HDDs on the fly).

Hopefully you didnt discard 8**/SB850 chipset boards due to my advice......

Rather than running around trying to get gnome 2.X distros with limited life remaining, or possibly out of support already, I'd suggest trying debian 6.0. You can get Xfce 'out of the box' if you get the 'right' install CD. By defualt it uses gnome 2.X, but I still think its crazy to 'get used to gnome 2.X' now. Trinity (KDE 3.X fork) is an easy install.

Debian 6.0 should work just fine with SB850 southbridges.

BTW, I did some checking, the SB6**/7**/8** (and even SB9**) should work with any kernel version 2.6.25+ (which is very, very old as far as linux kernels go).
Well, maybe 'pernicious' was not best choice, but I only get an hour at library, which is not conducive to well chosen words, spell-checking, and so on. Anyway, many thanks for your assistance in finding out which releases I need to get to avoid the much despised KDE 4.x and Gnome 3.x; even though its clear you don't approve, which is lead-in to the debate. I've always considered the question of whether an OS (say XP Pro or Windows 2000)or desktop (say KDE 3 or Gnome 2) is supported or not to be a non-issue. As one example, I already mentioned teaching myself Internet on public computers couple years ago. These library computers used XP Pro SP2 then, and in fact still do. Now I recall microsoft support ending for XP Pro SP2 either back in 2009 or in July of 2010 (depending on who you ask). Either way, that day came and went, and the computers did not implode, nor did the sky start falling, despite Billie Gates best 'Chicken Little' impersonation. Nor do the library's IT staff seem in any hurry to switch to XP Pro SP3, which may still be supported (can't remember). I could go on as to all the reasons why I think so little of support, but one example is enough. Point being you obviously disagree and see things quite differently, as I count no less than six mentions of "dropped support", "being dropped", "be dropped", "out of support", "end of life", and "limited life remaining"...and equally clear you really, really want me to take notice. Mission accomplished, you got my attention! You wrote "It just asking to make your life more difficult in the future, due to gnome 2.X being dropped." Just what sort of difficulties do you foresee? Mepis 8.0 "will be out of support soon" so what are the consequences of this, and what possible problems could arise that would force me to ditch Mepis 8.0 after "less than 4 months"? Just what happens to Ubuntu 2.9 after April 2012 that has you concerned?

To answer your question, I'm sure KDE 3 and Gnome 2 would be easier to learn from past experience teaching myself XP Pro. It was slow and nerve-grating process until I found instructional books on it. Al such books I can access at library (or have bought myself) target either Gnome 2 or KDE 3, and so all my library research (two 3inch binders full) has too. No, I've never actually used either, but familiar enough to be quite comfortable with trying...plus I don't detest them as with KDE 4 & Gnome 3, which counts for a lot! Now as said, I'm not totally opposed to strange desktops like XFCE, Fluxbox, etc., but have found no books detailing them, nor has Google research turned up much anything, so learning to use these will be hit and miss, trial & error...which is how I started with XP Pro, and no, I definitely ain't looking forward to it!

Unfortunately, computer time is down to 4 minutes, so cannot address your other questions/comments today. Will try to cover that next time!
 
  


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