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Old 06-30-2010, 09:22 PM   #16
frankbell
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Thanks, pcardout.

As I said, I can live with sudo.

Frankly, the only reason I'm running Ubuntu on two boxes is that they came from the factory with Ubuntu. Everything works and the wireless is flawless, so I'm not messing with them. I have fought the wireless wars before.

I have used Debian and really like it. In fact, when my laptop with factory-installed Ubuntu arrived, the first thing I did was try to put Debian on it, but the wireless didn't work and I did not want another learning experience so I fell back to Ubuntu.

I wrote about it Debian here. It is, as far as I am concerned, much more versatile and configurable than Ubuntu.

But, all other things being equal, Slackware is my distro of choice.
 
Old 07-01-2010, 06:35 AM   #17
LaneLester
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One of the main reasons not to run as root is to avoid the flames and attempts by the faithful to "save your soul." ;-)

Many years ago, when as a Windows user I "discovered" Linux, I spent a long time switching back and forth. I finally realized the main reason I kept leaving Linux was its refusal to treat me like a responsible person. In Windows I was always Administrator, and I was used to being able to do what I wanted without being nagged for a password or told I was not allowed to do something.

I finally decided to either quit fooling with Linux or start running as root. I chose the latter and have never regretted my decision. I usually run some flavor of Ubuntu (currently Maverick 64-bit Minimal CD with Openbox), so after installing I always set the root password, and I'm good to go. I used to also have to enable root logon, but that is no longer necessary.

But I'm in favor of choices and letting everyone live as safely as they want to.

Lane
 
Old 07-01-2010, 07:54 AM   #18
MTK358
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It's not about you being untrustworthy, it's about protecting your system from malicious software and minimizing damage caused by possible mistakes.
 
Old 07-01-2010, 08:09 AM   #19
saikee
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Linux is about choices, right?

Those wants best protection from the cyber attack will favour Ubuntu.

GUI root users find Slackware and Slax families very accommodating.

We know exactly what we are getting into with each distro so choose wisely.
 
Old 07-03-2010, 05:30 AM   #20
merlinblack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
It's not about you being untrustworthy, it's about protecting your system from malicious software and minimizing damage caused by possible mistakes.
My thoughts exactly - but I'll add that it does not have to be "malicious" software either - it can be well intentioned but with a bug software.
 
Old 07-03-2010, 11:57 PM   #21
frankbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
Those wants best protection from the cyber attack will favour Ubuntu.

GUI root users find Slackware and Slax families very accommodating.
I'm not sure I can fully buy into that. (By the way, Slackware can also be set to start in a GUI by changing one character in a startup file.)

As I recall, though it has been a while and things may have changed, both Debian and CentOS allowed me to log in as root and do stuff. One of them, I think CentOS, put an annoying red frame around the window, but let me continue .

I do agree with the those who say that, even on a server, certain things are easier to do from a graphical environment.

I know that I am quite happy running Slackware as user. When I need to do root stuff, I can drop to a terminal and su to root (I rarely login and start X as root). Then I can either do what I want to do from the command line or start a graphical program, such as Konqueror or Kate, from the command line and take advantage of the graphical interface. Then, when I'm done, I can exit X and all the GUI overhead goes away.

Just as when I make Hollandaise sauce, I make in a blender because it's easier than spending 35 minutes with a whisk and a saucepan. (The blender is also foolproof, while the saucepan and whisk are not, but that's another issue.)

I know it detracts from my geek cred to say it, but I would rather edit text files in Kate or Gedit than in vi or even nano.

That being said, I did early in my Linux experience have a laptop on which I did my day to day computing as root for a couple of years and nothing bad happened.

I stopped doing that, not because I don't trust myself, but for the same reason I lock my truck.

In my neighborhood, I could leave it unlocked with the keys in it for 10,000 times. But that 10,001st time . . . . And, as the song says, when she goes, she's gone.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 12:39 AM   #22
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I know it detracts from my geek cred to say it, but I would rather edit text files in Kate or Gedit than in vi or even nano.
"Detracts from" is too weak a phrase to use there...

Back on topic: While Ubuntu comes with a disabled administrator account, it will always be more secure than Windows by default.

Running in an unprivileged user account is a foreign concept to many Windows "power-users," but it is an essential part of running a secure and robust system.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 01:40 AM   #23
lucmove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
Linux is about choices, right?
Wrong. Linux is about freedom from corporations, that does not necessarily mean choice. Linux is a very political thing. Get caught making wrong choices in Linux and you are sure to suffer retaliation.

For example, you are not allowed to chat in Freenode if your username is root.

For example, some distros disable graphical login as root. When you ask in forums how to unlock it, people know the answer, but they pretend not to hear you.

Choice stinks. Your choices bother stern people around you. Making choices is quite impolite, uneducated, inappropriate. Good manners require that you comply with the party line.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 06:10 AM   #24
saikee
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When I say Linux is about choices I meant if you don't like Ubuntu deliberately removing the root account then use Slackware which does the opposite of giving you the root account first and leave you to add the ordinary accounts later.

Yes many experienced Linux users can alter the factory settings of a distro to do things their ways but respect the distro's intention and refrain from telling people how to hack it. That to me is a responsible behaviour.

Each distro is designed with certain features. If one dislikes them go for another distro. If Linux isn't the answer use a different operating system or go proprietary and pay for it.

Last edited by saikee; 07-04-2010 at 06:18 AM.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 08:17 AM   #25
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucmove View Post
For example, you are not allowed to chat in Freenode if your username is root.

For example, some distros disable graphical login as root. When you ask in forums how to unlock it, people know the answer, but they pretend not to hear you.
The assumption is that if you actually need to run as root, then you probably don't really understand Linux well enough to be doing so.

They're protecting you from yourself.

Everyone who knows anything about Linux doesn't run as root. Period.

"Running as root is like putting on a giant robot suit that comes with a bunch of laser rockets. At first, it's pretty cool to run around being all-powerful, but one day you might end up accidentally crushing something that you didn't intend to, and unfortunately if you're root there's no such thing as a "do over". Therefore, you want to put on that giant robot suit only when really necessary, and to be very careful while you've got it on."

Don't worry. It's a question that every ex-Windows newb comes out with at some point.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 06:26 PM   #26
lucmove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
When I say Linux is about choices I meant if you don't like Ubuntu deliberately removing the root account then use Slackware which does the opposite of giving you the root account first and leave you to add the ordinary accounts later.
Then go complain that Slackware should have automatic dependency resolution and they will say, "No, that's not how we do things around here, chasing dependencies all day to make one damn program run is cool, shut up, screw you. We don't like dependency resolution, so no one will get the chance to CHOOSE to have it either."

Or words to that effect. Choice is inappropriate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
The assumption is that if you actually need to run as root, then you probably don't really understand Linux well enough to be doing so.
Right. Those who understand Linux know that trying to CHOOSE in inappropriate. You should do what you're told, not what you really want to do. So long as you don't use Microsoft, everybody wins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
They're protecting you from yourself.
One of the many ways to call someone "stupid." But it's just for your protection. The way to hell is paved with good intentions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Everyone who knows anything about Linux doesn't run as root. Period.
Oh, shit. You said "Period!" Now we can't discuss anymore!

Welcome to OS Mart, Sir. Here is your ONE choice. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
"Running as root is like putting on a giant robot suit that comes with a bunch of laser rockets...
Holy cow, robot suit with laser rockets! Good to know I am talking to an adult! What next? Oh, oh, I know: "With great powers come great tired, foolish comic book hero analogies."

My turn:

http://xkcd.com/149/

Period.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 06:31 PM   #27
damgar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucmove View Post
Then go complain that Slackware should have automatic dependency resolution and they will say, "No, that's not how we do things around here, chasing dependencies all day to make one damn program run is cool, shut up, screw you. We don't like dependency resolution, so no one will get the chance to CHOOSE to have it either."

Or words to that effect. Choice is inappropriate.
Slapt-get does dependency checking if you choose to install it on your Slackware system. So it is a choice.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 06:47 PM   #28
Tinkster
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Just a gentle reminder (to all partaking in this thread):


Abstain from personal attacks.





Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 07-04-2010, 06:51 PM   #29
saikee
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I thought users with real knowledge come here to contribute their experience. unpolished language against others' opinions is not real knowledge.

Edit - Thanks Moderator for the intervention.

Last edited by saikee; 07-04-2010 at 06:52 PM.
 
Old 07-04-2010, 07:44 PM   #30
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
I thought users with real knowledge come here to contribute their experience.
That may be so but that does not mean that a line like
Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
GUI root users find Slackware and Slax families very accommodating.
(implying using root for day to day ops) is something that people should understand from it's OK to run as root continuously, especially when it's followed by a line like
Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
We know exactly what we are getting into with each distro so choose wisely.
From experience you may know what you're getting into but that does not mean all GNU/Linux users do, especially the new ones. So if you want to state you are happy to stick your head in the nose by running as root continuously that's OK, your choice, but promoting it's OK to run as root continuously in general (and esp. not a GUI) I think is not something that benefits GNU/Linux users in general.


Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee View Post
Those wants best protection from the cyber attack will favour Ubuntu.
BTW, could you explain what on earth this is supposed to mean?
 
  


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