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Old 05-27-2008, 07:38 PM   #16
tnewman1972
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darn. i get error 17 and it just hangs..mind you it installs to hd0...i assume thats the same?

Last edited by tnewman1972; 05-27-2008 at 07:39 PM. Reason: added text
 
Old 05-27-2008, 08:08 PM   #17
Emerson
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Keep in mind Grub is not Linux. Grub is just a bootloader, it names devices hd0, hd1, etc. What is happening (error 17) is probably Grub has wrong drive mapping and partition you are trying to boot simply is not there. The problem with changing the boot order in the BIOS is the drive that boots becomes first for Grub. For instance, you set your rig to boot from sdb - and it will be hd0 for Grub. Messy, isn't? This is why I suggest not to fiddle with boot order in BIOS. You can swap drives for Windows (Windows boots from first device only) in Grub. You can search for bootable partitions from Grub shell, see http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#find.
 
Old 05-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #18
tnewman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan_nicolau View Post
Installing to hda should have been fine, if that's the device set to boot in the bios. What happens when you try to boot the computer (having installed grub to hda)? You can also try installing grub to the mbr of every disk in your computer (overkill, but I did it on my computer because I can't tell the difference between multiple identical disks in the bios).
maybe i need to do this then....how please?

thanks guys.

Tim
 
Old 05-27-2008, 09:35 PM   #19
grizly
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Quote:
sda is where i attempted to install linux..so its auto partitioned.

sdb is my third hdd- 160gb ntfs.
sdc is an external usb hdd.
Soo.. Windows = sdb = hd1 in grub.

I would just install grub on the MBR of hd1, your sdb IDE windows drive. (it will already have one, just overwrite it)
 
Old 05-28-2008, 12:45 AM   #20
tnewman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizly View Post
Soo.. Windows = sdb = hd1 in grub.

I would just install grub on the MBR of hd1, your sdb IDE windows drive. (it will already have one, just overwrite it)

wow now im confused. sdb1 shows that it is not bootable...and it has nothing on it but files- no OS.
 
Old 05-28-2008, 01:26 AM   #21
grizly
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So, either you managed to install windows on a removable drive.. or you just deleted it when you installed linux?

But then again, sdb1 would be a partition on the drive, and the partition itself is probably not bootable, but the drive should be. (drives having many partitions etc)

I would concentrate on getting each one working in turn.

First, get Windows running. (sounds stupid, who wants it anyway, but it doesn't play nice)
Then, when thats ok, shove the next drive in, and install linux on it, it should be able to see the windows drive, and you should install grub in the MBR of the windows drive.

This way, you can boot either, but you will need both drives in order to boot windows. (as the bootloader is on the second drive, even though grub uses a piece of the first)

It is a confusing topic..

Quote:
How it works, in practice!

1. System is powered up -> BIOS loads MBR of first drive.
2. MBR points to second drive, at linux hard-drive, processing passes to grub as grub resides there.
3. Grub gives you menu (menu.1st) and you choose, or it automatically chooses after time.
4. Processing passes to whichever OS was chosen, and booting resumes.
So, if you change the boot order, or move the partitions around, you may lose the ability to boot, just because of the configuration.

To get around this, you can shrink the windows partition a tad, put a small (100MB) partition with the linux /boot in it. This will make it easier to understand the boot, and if the second drive fails, you can still boot windows from grub.

I think.. I need a coffee.
 
Old 05-28-2008, 03:42 AM   #22
tnewman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizly View Post
So, either you managed to install windows on a removable drive.. or you just deleted it when you installed linux?

But then again, sdb1 would be a partition on the drive, and the partition itself is probably not bootable, but the drive should be. (drives having many partitions etc)

I would concentrate on getting each one working in turn.

First, get Windows running. (sounds stupid, who wants it anyway, but it doesn't play nice)
Then, when thats ok, shove the next drive in, and install linux on it, it should be able to see the windows drive, and you should install grub in the MBR of the windows drive.

This way, you can boot either, but you will need both drives in order to boot windows. (as the bootloader is on the second drive, even though grub uses a piece of the first)

It is a confusing topic..



So, if you change the boot order, or move the partitions around, you may lose the ability to boot, just because of the configuration.

To get around this, you can shrink the windows partition a tad, put a small (100MB) partition with the linux /boot in it. This will make it easier to understand the boot, and if the second drive fails, you can still boot windows from grub.

I think.. I need a coffee.
woah you think you need a coffee!...actually ive had windows xp, 98, vista 32 and 64 bit all installed successfully, including dual boot xp/vista on these 2 drives before and even at one point mustve fluked linux as a triple boot system as lord knows i cant do it now.

i thought i had it sorted when trying this afternoon with fedora 9.

during install it asks me where i want to install. it shows sda as my 200gb drive, sdb as my 160gb drive and sdc as the drive i have windows installed on.

it then asks what drive i want to install to, and where to put the bootloader.

so i select sda and sdc respectively/....right?...

all seems well,...only to have the boot freeze at "grub"...no error message..no disk activity....just nothing.

man am i confused. i checked the bios...it shows channels 0, 2 and 3.

and they are in the right order.

this is sooo difficult...

i still dont really get why either...and the advice given here has been great but without definitive solution- does anybodt know what is going on here?

thanks guys..

Tim
 
Old 05-28-2008, 06:20 AM   #23
Emerson
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Why you do not make things simpler? You want to install Linux on sda? Great, do it. Disconnect all other drives, set your rig to boot from SATA, install Linux, install Grub on sda. Done. Once Linux is up and working add your other drives, do not change the boot order, leave sda the boot drive. You need to map drives for Windows to boot, but it's easy in Grub configuration.
 
Old 05-28-2008, 06:36 AM   #24
aus9
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Hi

you look like a target to read my trouble shooter link and the howto in the signature...yes I know that may not excite you but the night is young.

1) In your first post, you have made the typical windows assumption because microsoft has lied to you over the years....they call c partition, c drive and mislead ppl into thinking that you do not need a partition on your drive because windows likes to have all of it.....what a surprise

2) I can not stress the value of Emerson in troubleshooting...do not change the bios boot order please.

3) grub counts drives detected by bios starting from zero then 1 2 etc and same for partitions.....its easy once you know that.

4) but the secret of a good bios is to jump to bootable partitions or bootable devices.....hanging around in the bios does not get much work done....so the other suggestions of using live cds also has great merit if the grub trouble shooter fails because....um its not in the mbr.

5) error 17 is a stage2 error means you have had success at getting grub into one of your master boot records.....but it is not clear to me what your current boot order is so if you see grub on the screen....just after bios post results....you have jumped to a grub in mbr.

error 17 means grub is trying to find the balance of its booting files at a partition that does not have them.

6) you have mentioned hdc at some point

hda is ide drive or optical drive jumpered as master controller 1
hdb is same but as slave on same controller
hdc is same as hda but on controller 2
etc


7) be aware that grub does not like being on a raid striped partition.

I have done some testing with virtualbox and can post links if interested but lets start at the start point.

8) do you want to keep a windows drive? oops partition

what is your true bios boot order for hard drives (no opticals pls)

eg
ide 80G first controller jumper master
sata 200G on sata connector 1
ide 400g first controller jumper slave


pls try my trouble shooter or reply to (8) and other posters as you see fit?

good luck
 
Old 05-28-2008, 08:09 AM   #25
Agrouf
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Make sure grub is installed on a ext2 or ext3 partition.
If you don't want your system on such a partition, make a /boot partition for grub (easy, at the installation of Fedora, create a /boot partition of about 100mb as ext2).
Grub error 17 means grub can't mount the partition which contains its configuration files.
When you have an ext2 partition to put grub into, it will boot.
 
  


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