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Old 09-04-2014, 11:01 PM   #61
yancek
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Unless you plan to do a lot of graphics intensive work, 2-4GB should be more than enough for swap.


Quote:
However, by putting /home directory on the same partition as / of the filesystem, the the user generated files will be erased in case of a reinstallation of the OS.
Yes.

Quote:
As discussed earlier, I would like to substitute the'/home' with '/data', partition, if it favors my earlier mentioned reuirements. The '/home' partition won't satisfy those needs.
You need a /home direcotory as I don't think your will be able to login your users without it. Don't know really, never tried it or read anywhere about anyone else trying it.

If you already have windows installed using mbr, you need to install Linux mbr and NOT use EFI/GPT. You can't mix, it creates boot problems and you may not be able to boot either. Based on what I've read as I don't use EFI.

Quote:
Since I am thinking of substituting the '/home' with '/data', can '/data' partition be in ntfs?
If you are thinking about putting your user directories in /mnt rather than /home, I don't expect that would be a good idea. Don't think it would work but try it if you want. A straight data partition can be ntfs as Linux systems can read and write to them, the reverse is not true. However, putting your user directories in a separate data partition formatted ntfs, would not expect that to work. If you don't create a separate /home partition, then a /home directory will be created in the / partition. It won't take up much space and you can mostly use a data partition to store documents, videos, etc.
 
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:50 PM   #62
Anil Kagi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
Unless you plan to do a lot of graphics intensive work, 2-4GB should be more than enough for swap.
Yes, sometimes I do a lot of graphics intensive work. So you mean I should go for a 6 GB swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
You need a /home direcotory as I don't think your will be able to login your users without it. Don't know really, never tried it or read anywhere about anyone else trying it.
So what I need to do is;

1] Create a '/' partition on which the system files and the '/home' directory are installed.

2] To place the user generated files I create 'two-ntfs-data-partitions' viz, '/data/user1' and '/data/user2'. These two data partitions will not be accessible to other users except the Root but they will be mounted and ready to use when their respective user logs-in. And naturally since they are ntfs, they can be accessed from windows too.

So my partition scheme, after installation and later, after the creation of the data partitions, would look like this;

--50 GB ------- Windows ------- - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
--44 GB ------- Unallocated --- - ------ ------ ---------
--10 GB ------- /data/user1 ------ ntfs ---- - Logical
--10 GB ------- /data/user2 ------ ntfs ---- - Logical
----6 GB ------- Swap ------------ - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

Right?

Now should I go ahead and install with the following partition scheme;

--50 GB ------- Windows ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ----- - ntfs ------ Primary
--64 GB ------- Unallocated -- - ------ ------ ---------
----6 GB ------- Swap ----------- - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

And then later create the required data partitions. Right? [However I would need your guidance on that.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
If you already have windows installed using mbr, you need to install Linux mbr and NOT use EFI/GPT. You can't mix, it creates boot problems and you may not be able to boot either. Based on what I've read as I don't use EFI.
Okay, point taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
If you are thinking about putting your user directories in /mnt rather than /home, I don't expect that would be a good idea. Don't think it would work but try it if you want.
No. I won't try that if you think it won't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
A straight data partition can be ntfs as Linux systems can read and write to them, the reverse is not true.
What is the reverse of that? That a windows system cannot read and write to an ext4 data partition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
However, putting your user directories in a separate data partition formatted ntfs, would not expect that to work. If you don't create a separate /home partition, then a /home directory will be created in the / partition.
Point taken:-

"A /home directory is a must for Linux systems, either existing seperately as a seperate partition, or it must and will be created by default, inside the '/' partition". Without it the users will not be able to login. It won't take up much space and we can mostly use a data partition to store documents, videos, etc."

Right?

If so can I go ahead and create partitions as belows;

--50 GB ------- Windows ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ----- - ntfs ------ Primary
--64 GB ------- Unallocated -- - ------ ------ ---------
----6 GB ------- Swap ----------- - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

Thank you for your reply yancek, I am greatful to your compassion.

Regards

Anil

Last edited by Anil Kagi; 09-04-2014 at 11:57 PM.
 
Old 09-04-2014, 11:54 PM   #63
evo2
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
You need a /home direcotory as I don't think your will be able to login your users without it. Don't know really, never tried it or read anywhere about anyone else trying it.
Users should have a home directory, but it doesn't have to take the form /home/<username>/. In practice it can be almost anywhere (I'm not sure about filesystem type restrictions). The home directory is just defined by the 6th field in /etc/passwd.

I have vague memories of logging in when the home directory was missing and ending up in /tmp/.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
However, putting your user directories in a separate data partition formatted ntfs, would not expect that to work.
By "users directories" do you mean users home directories? Because it is ntfs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
If you don't create a separate /home partition, then a /home directory will be created in the / partition.
What would create the /home/ directory? The Mint installer? Even if it does, postinstall, accounts can be modified to have their home directories elsewhere and you can remove /home if desired. Additionally, useradd can be configured to have a different default location for new users home directories.

Evo2.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 12:12 AM   #64
EDDY1
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Quote:
I have vague memories of logging in when the home directory was missing and ending up in /tmp/.
I had a blank desktop no icons until I installed XDG
 
Old 09-05-2014, 08:35 AM   #65
yancek
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Every installation I've done has created a /home directory so I suppose the installer does it, I never have. I'm not sure the system would function properly without a /home directory or having user directories elsewhere. As I said above, this is something I don't know, never tried it. Since one can easily move the /home/user directories and also can change fstab entries, I suppose it would work which is why I haven't made any definitive statements on the subject. I don't think there is any need to do it and would complicate things for a new user such as the OP.

Quote:
Yes, sometimes I do a lot of graphics intensive work. So you mean I should go for a 6 GB swap?
No suggestion here, I don't do graphics work and only have 2GB of RAM on my Desktop and never use swap even with that. Do you have 6GB of RAM?

Quote:
1] Create a '/' partition on which the system files and the '/home' directory are installed.
That's common practice. See the post above by evo2. You may not need a separate /home directory or you may be able to put it elsewhere but I don't know that you can do that during the installation. On the last new system with one user I installed with nothing new added to it the user directory took 165B, not a lot with the size of drives today.

A default windows system does not read/write to a Linux filesystem. You can download and install third party software to your windows system which works on some Linux filesystems. I rarely boot into windows so I don't use it.

Quote:
"A /home directory is a must for Linux systems, either existing seperately as a seperate partition, or it must and will be created by default, inside the '/' partition". Without it the users will not be able to login. It won't take up much space and we can mostly use a data partition to store documents, videos, etc."
No definitive statement on the first part, basically because I've never done it. Doing one or the other would simplify things for you as a relatively new user of Linux and again, I really don't KNOW if you could log in or if doing this would create problems. It's just the standard and I can't really see any reason why you would need to change this. Although these things can be changed after the install (see the post by evo2 above) you would be complicating things without any need to do so, especially as a new user. Someone with years of experience would probably not have much of a problem doing this.

I don't know if you have considered this but, one possible solution would be to get another external drive to create data partitions. You could do all this after doing the installation.
 
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:56 AM   #66
EDDY1
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On my system the /home directory was made but because there was no Xdg installed, when user was created the /home direcory was not complete, no Pic, Docs, Downloads although I was able to login, I couldn't doanything except power the machine off via powerbutton.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 12:17 PM   #67
Anil Kagi
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Thank you yancek

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
Do you have 6GB of RAM?
No. I have a 3 GB RAM.

So is it okay to go for the installation with the following partition scheme;

--50 GB ------- Windows ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ----- - ntfs ------ Primary
--64 GB ------- Unallocated -- - ------ ------ ---------
----6 GB ------- Swap ----------- - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

Please advise if the above setup would be proper for me?

Thank you

Regards
 
Old 09-05-2014, 01:13 PM   #68
JeremyBoden
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Create a /home if you want to run Linux.

Programs store any user specific configuration in /home/user in hidden directories or files.
You really don't need /swap, but I suppose it does no harm.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 01:18 PM   #69
yancek
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Quote:
On my system the /home directory was made but because there was no Xdg installed, when user was created the /home direcory was not complete, no Pic, Docs, Downloads although I was able to login, I couldn't doanything except power the machine off via powerbutton.
Interesting, but I don't see how that will help the OP or how it is relevant to the question posted.


Anil Kagi:

The setup in your last post will work but you have eliminated one of your original requirements, having a separate /home partition where you could save both user data AND user configuration files that would not be overwritten should a reinstall be needed/wanted. If that isn't a consideration any longer and you are satisfied with creating data partitions for each user after the installation from the unallocated space remaining, it should all work.
 
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:11 PM   #70
Anil Kagi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
The setup in your last post will work but you have eliminated one of your original requirements, having a separate /home partition where you could save both user data AND user configuration files that would not be overwritten should a reinstall be needed/wanted. If that isn't a consideration any longer and you are satisfied with creating data partitions for each user after the installation from the unallocated space remaining, it should all work.
Thank you yancek, for the care & cautioning bestowed upon me;

Now, with the setup I wanted to go with, [I will post it here again to facilitate the discussion];

--50 GB ------- Windows ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ----- - ntfs ------ Primary
--64 GB ------- Unallocated -- - ------ ------ ---------
----6 GB ------- Swap ----------- - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

In this scheme, I suppose the 'user configuration files' will be placed in the '/' partition, which will be deleted in case of a re-installation. And the 'user generated files' will be placed in their respective '/data/user1' and 'data/user2' partitions that will be created after installation, and will not be harmed in case of a re-installation.

Now I was actually not sure whether the 'user configuration files' are important to me, and neglected that issue. I again thank you very much and am greatfull to you for cautioning & taking care, to advise me regarding that.

Could you please advise me whether I should keep the 'configuration files' or not? What is inside the 'configuration files'? Would it be helpfull, to keep safe the 'configuration files' in case of future re-installations?

Do the 'configuration files' contain mine and other users' preferences and settings?

If so, it would be helpfull to keep them, if the same settings would be automatically applied after a re-installation and system would look the same as I/we left it before re-installation. That would be really usefull and time-saving and would save me/other-users the trouble of re-customising everything according to my/our needs, again.

I chose the '/data' partition over '/home' partition because the '/home' partition is shared for reading and it cannot be in ntfs. Moreover the '/home' directory will be created inside the '/' partition and the 'configuration files' will be placed there. So a seperate '/home' partition is not necessary in my case.

However, that choice will deprive me of my 'configuration files' in case of a re-installation. Now what should I do about that?

What are the other options of preserving the 'configuration files' even after choosing to substitute the '/home' with the '/data' partition? If in case of some severe problem, if the OS does not even let me to log-on, then I will surely loose the possibility of even copying the 'configuration files' and placing them somewhere safe so that they could be integrated with the re-installed OS. So then what is the solution?

Now something has come up in my mind. Would it be nice to have a small and seperate '/home' partition, where the 'configuration files' of all users are placed? Moreover that '/home' partition would be a place where all the users could share their files. Now how large should this partition be? Since as you said the 'configuration files' are of very small size, the size of this seperate '/home' partition could be about the size of a few largest files that the users would share. That would ammount to about 3 GB.

Now by doing that, the default 'User-folders' like the 'Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Templates, Pictures, Music, Public(what is this meant for?) and videos' would all be placed in the '/home' partition. Will all this hold in the small 3 GB '/home' partition? The users will have to keep shifting their files as and when they are created to their respective '/data/user' partitions. Otherwise the '/home' partition will be full soon. [And they have to shift, also to prevent other users from reading the files created by them.]

Can these default 'User-folders' be shifted to the users' respective '/data' partitions, so that any files the users create, like for example downloads, are automatically created inside those default 'User-folders' that are shifted to their respective '/data' partitions?

Now since we have only two '/data' partitions viz '/data/user1' & '/data/user2' created for the two standard users, where do we place the Root's default 'User-folders' [in order to prevent the '/home' partition getting full & preventing other users form reading them]? Can the large 150 GB Local-Disk partition [that I have kept for my self], be converted to '/data/Root' partition without doing any harm to it's contents and place all the Root's default 'User-folders' into a seperate folder created there? [I am the Root]

Is all this possible? Should I create a seperate 3 GB, ext4, '/home' partition too?

Kindly advise me on this.

Thanks a lot yancek, and sorry for the long post and the number of querries. Forgive me and hold your compassion on me.

Regards

Anil
 
Old 09-06-2014, 12:45 AM   #71
EDDY1
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Quote:
I chose the '/data' partition over '/home' partition because the '/home' partition is shared for reading and it cannot be in ntfs. Moreover the '/home' directory will be created inside the '/' partition and the 'configuration files' will be placed there. So a seperate '/home' partition is not necessary in my case.
If you choose separate /home partition the user data isn't shared unless you choose to share individual files or all of them.

Also you can reinstall OS & preserve all of the /home & add to fstab to gain access without having to copy the files over.

Are you creating ntfs partitions for windows access?
 
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:58 AM   #72
evo2
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyBoden View Post
Programs store any user specific configuration in /home/user in hidden directories or files.
I'd rather not use any program that made such a fragile assumption. Properly written programs actually query where the users home directory is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyBoden View Post
You really don't need /swap, but I suppose it does no harm.
Really? What if the OP wants to hibernate the machine?

Evo2.
 
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Old 09-06-2014, 02:33 AM   #73
Anil Kagi
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Thank you for coming, EDDY1

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDY1 View Post
Are you creating ntfs partitions for windows access?
Yes, I want access from windows. That is one of the reasons why I choose the '/data/user' over '/home' partition. Now that you mentioned;

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDY1 View Post
If you choose separate /home partition the user data isn't shared unless you choose to share individual files or all of them.
Windows access will be the only reason to chose the ntfs '/data/user' over '/home' partition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDY1 View Post
Also you can reinstall OS & preserve all of the /home & add to fstab to gain access without having to copy the files over.
Oh. You are right. I forgot and got confused. Thank you for pointing it out.

So since I will be creating the small 3 GB '/home' on a seperate partition, the 'user-configuration files' can be chosen to be preserved in case of a re-install.

So the only questions that remain now are;
Can the default 'User-folders' like the 'Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Templates, Pictures, Music, Public and videos' be shifted to the two '/data' partitions viz '/data/user1' & '/data/user2' to prevent the small '/home' partition getting filled often? Or simply, all I have to do is create similar folders in the '/data/user' partition and delete all those folders from '/home'. And for downloads, just change the default location for saving. If these things are done, will it affect the normal functioning of the system with, like the problems of 'auto-mounting' and 'requiring the root password', that I had earlier faced? Because, with the setup I am thinking of now, as belows;

--50 GB ------- Windows ------ - ntfs ------ Primary
150 GB ------- Local disk ----- - ntfs ------ Primary
--64 GB ------- Unallocated -- - ------ ------ ---------
----3 GB ------- /home ----------- - ext4 ----- Logical
----6 GB ------- Swap ----------- - Swap --- Logical
--30 GB ------- / ------------------- - ext4 ----- Logical

whenever an user logs-on, he should find that, his '/data/user' and the '/home' partitions are mounted and available for use without requiring the Root password. Or, is it that, just shifting of those folders won't affect any of that?

If that could be done; that converts my small 3 GB '/home' partition into a place just for preserving the 'user-configuration files' and a place to share user generated files.

And then; what is inside the 'configuration files'? Do they contain users' preferences and settings? And if preserved would the same settings be automatically applied after a re-installation and system would look the same as I/we left it before re-installation?

Thank you EDDY1 for the concern

Regards

Anil
 
Old 09-06-2014, 02:39 AM   #74
EDDY1
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Those are questions that yancek, evo2 & a few others that have chimed into this thread can answer.
 
Old 09-06-2014, 02:41 AM   #75
Anil Kagi
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Thank you for the concern Evo2,

Quote:
Originally Posted by evo2 View Post
What if the OP wants to hibernate the machine?

Evo2.
Ah, I would do that often. I like hibernation. The system boots up quickly and it is as I had left it when I shutdown. I just love it.

Instead of dropping it altogether, if the Swap partition is substituted with the Swap-file, I suppose, the hibernation would function normal.

Thanking you

Regards

Anil

Last edited by Anil Kagi; 09-06-2014 at 02:42 AM.
 
  


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