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Old 01-02-2008, 08:33 PM   #1
tommytomthms5
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Question off name brand usb tv tuner


so ive had this thing laying around for ages today i pick it up and go "i wonder..."


all i can dig up on it is its known as a:

Super Digital Video USB 2.0 TV Capture Box

chipset unknown.....


it would be cool if it worked but im not expecting much...

Last edited by tommytomthms5; 01-02-2008 at 08:37 PM.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 09:44 PM   #2
elliott678
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What shows up in 'lsusb'?
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:03 PM   #3
tommytomthms5
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Code:
t@ubuntu:~$ sudo lsusb -v |more

Bus 005 Device 008: ID eb1a:2821 eMPIA Technology, Inc. 
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0 
  bDeviceProtocol         0 
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0xeb1a eMPIA Technology, Inc.
  idProduct          0x2821 
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           0 
  iProduct                0 
  iSerial                 0 
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength          521
    bNumInterfaces          3
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          0 
    bmAttributes         0x80
      (Bus Powered)
    MaxPower              500mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0000  1x 0 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       1
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0400  1x 0 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       2
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0ad4  2x 724 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
  bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       3
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0c00  2x 0 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       4
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x1300  3x 768 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
 Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       5
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x135c  3x 860 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
 bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       6
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x13c4  3x 964 bytes
   bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       7
      bNumEndpoints           3
      bInterfaceClass       255 Vendor Specific Class
      bInterfaceSubClass      0 
      bInterfaceProtocol    255 
      iInterface              0 
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            3
          Transfer Type            Interrupt
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0001  1x 1 bytes
        bInterval              11
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x82  EP 2 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
 Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x1400  3x 0 bytes
        bInterval               1
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x84  EP 4 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0200  1x 512 bytes
        bInterval               1
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        1
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           0
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      1 Control Device
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (HEADER)
        bcdADC               1.00
        wTotalLength           39
        bInCollection           1
        baInterfaceNr( 0)       2
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                12
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             1
 wTerminalType      0x0603 Line Connector
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bNrChannels             2
        wChannelConfig     0x0003
          Left Front (L)
          Right Front (R)
        iChannelNames           0 
        iTerminal               0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
        bUnitID                 2
        bSourceID               1
        bControlSize            1
        bmaControls( 0)      0x03
          Mute
          Volume
        bmaControls( 1)      0x00
        iFeature                0 
      AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
        bTerminalID             3
        wTerminalType      0x0101 USB Streaming
        bAssocTerminal          0
        bSourceID               2
        iTerminal               0 
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           0
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       1
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           3
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                11
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            1 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        48000
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x001c  1x 28 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x00
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       2
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           3
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                11
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            1 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        44100
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0018  1x 24 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x00
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       3
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           3
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                11
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            1 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        32000
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0014  1x 20 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x00
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       4
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           3
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                11
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            1 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]        22050
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x000c  1x 12 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x00
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        2
      bAlternateSetting       5
      bNumEndpoints           1
      bInterfaceClass         1 Audio
      bInterfaceSubClass      2 Streaming
      bInterfaceProtocol      0 
      iInterface              0 
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      1 (AS_GENERAL)
        bTerminalLink           3
        bDelay                  1 frames
        wFormatTag              1 PCM
      AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
        bLength                11
        bDescriptorType        36
        bDescriptorSubtype      2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
        bFormatType             1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
        bNrChannels             2
        bSubframeSize           2
        bBitResolution         16
        bSamFreqType            1 Discrete
        tSamFreq[ 0]         8000
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 9
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x83  EP 3 IN
        bmAttributes            1
          Transfer Type            Isochronous
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0008  1x 8 bytes
        bInterval               1
        bRefresh                0
        bSynchAddress           0
        AudioControl Endpoint Descriptor:
          bLength                 7
          bDescriptorType        37
          bDescriptorSubtype      1 (EP_GENERAL)
          bmAttributes         0x00
          bLockDelayUnits         0 Undefined
          wLockDelay              0 Undefined
yea long as Fv(|< !!!!
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:29 PM   #4
elliott678
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I can't be sure, but it may be supported by the em2880 driver. If it is anything like most noname cards on the market, it has no identification eeprom so the driver won't know what to do with it, you may have to pass an option to the module so it knows what the card is based on. Load the driver then check dmesg, it will tell you if it knows what the card is, if it doesn't it will give you a list of the cards it supports, chances are your card is just a clone of one of these.

Some info on the em2880 driver:
http://mcentral.de/wiki/index.php/Em2880
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:31 PM   #5
tommytomthms5
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update

after looking on google it said to try modprobing em28xx but to no luck heres me error when running programs

Code:
t@ubuntu:~$ sudo tvtime
Running tvtime 1.0.2.
Reading configuration from /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml
Reading configuration from /home/t/.tvtime/tvtime.xml
videoinput: Cannot open capture device /dev/video0: No such file or directory
Thank you for using tvtime.
t@ubuntu:~$ sudo xawtv
This is xawtv-3.95.dfsg.1, running on Linux/i686 (2.6.22-14-generic)
xinerama 0: 1024x768+0+0
can't open /dev/video0: No such file or directory
v4l-conf had some trouble, trying to continue anyway
v4l2: open /dev/video0: No such file or directory
v4l2: open /dev/video0: No such file or directory
v4l: open /dev/video0: No such file or directory
no video grabber device available
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:34 PM   #6
elliott678
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Yeah, it looks like there is no identification eeprom in it, you will have to pass a 'card=' option when you load the module, check the dmesg output relevant to the card.

I went through this myself, got a noname $10 Philips saa7130 based PCI card and it was a pain to get right the first time, but now it works great, better than it does in XP with the drivers it came with.

Last edited by elliott678; 01-02-2008 at 10:36 PM.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 10:37 PM   #7
tommytomthms5
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Hauppauge WinTV USB 2 is on the supported list if my memory is right that driver worked in windows....

ill keep you guys updated

update:

i dont have a /dev/videoN

Last edited by tommytomthms5; 01-02-2008 at 10:56 PM.
 
Old 01-02-2008, 11:54 PM   #8
elliott678
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How did you load the module? 'modprobe em28xx card=4' would be the right option for the Hauppauge WinTV USB 2.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 08:22 AM   #9
tommytomthms5
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yo w-t-freak weird now i have everything that should be in /dev in my home folder!!!!!!!!

what the hells going on????
 
Old 01-03-2008, 11:04 AM   #10
tommytomthms5
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can i safely delete the home folder dev files im not supposed to have?
 
Old 01-03-2008, 06:06 PM   #11
tommytomthms5
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i hate doing this but ***bump***
 
Old 01-03-2008, 08:01 PM   #12
elliott678
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I have never seen something like that happen, any idea why it happened?
 
Old 01-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #13
tommytomthms5
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i deleted them so i dono

update: mplayer doesnt work ether

Last edited by tommytomthms5; 01-03-2008 at 09:13 PM.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 11:31 PM   #14
elliott678
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Are you getting a /dev/video# device yet? If not try posting the dmesg output relevant to the card. You may have to do what I did to figure out the model of tuner yours is a copy of, try them all. On the bright side you only have 33 options to go through, I had 109.
 
Old 01-03-2008, 11:56 PM   #15
tommytomthms5
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i got the light to turn on on the device and tvtime finds it but no tv channels come in its not the line because i tested it the line works i just need to fiddle with it

btw i got it by installing the v4l-dvb-experimental kernel modules.... fun stuff

edit also a list that came with that says to use card=2

update: i tried all the ones in the list that use ebla:2821 nothing still

Last edited by tommytomthms5; 01-04-2008 at 12:07 AM.
 
  


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