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Old 01-11-2003, 10:12 PM   #1
snake
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Distribution: Redhat 7.3
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NTLDR is missing


Hi,

I have windows2000 installed for the first time on this box, and then i installed windows xp.. and they used to work well with whatever boot loader they use.

Until, I installed Redhat7.3 AFTER w2k and xp pro. I installed grub and while installation told it to force use of lba32 and also install it on MBR.

After this, when everything happened properly, I booted and grub showed, Redhat and windows (which i think once I hit windows, it'll again ask me which OS, 2k or XP) but then, when I hit on windows.. it said "NTLDR is missing"

I'm in total chaos right now, dont know what to do, where to go. Even IRC channels are doing no good.

My partition table looks like this

| /dev/hda1 7774 VFAT
| ----/dev/hda2
| |
| |----/dev/hda5 14998 NTFS
| |----/dev/hda6 20003 NTFS
| |----/dev/hda7 10000 NTFS
| ----/dev/hda4 502 Linux swap
|___/dev/hda3 23070 ext3 (/)

/dev/hda1 has the windows 2000 partition C:\ (which was'nt even referred to during the grub installation when I was installing Redhat)

/dev/hda2 is the extended partition, and /hda5 is the D:\ which has Windows XP Pro OS, and then /dev/hda6 is E:\ and /dev/hda7 is G:\. F:\ is the CD-ROM.

/dev/hda4 is the swap as you know, and /dev/hda3 is where my Redhat is installed on /.

That's my partition table.

I'm trying to make myself able to boot into windows when i hit windows, (and it asks me for which OS again, XP or 2K, and when given again it boots me into those respective OSes) and boot into linux when I hit on linux.

I'm currently on Redhat, and with no way booting into any of the Microsoft's OSes (let's not get into how I can get into either one of the,, cuz i know, just dont wanna do it until i'm done with this)

Some way where I dont have to lose my data on either of the partitions, and I do something to get this working, I'm sure there are lots of you linux bigshots out there, please help me out.

Thanks a ton in advance, I'll give the rest of the ton when I get this working
 
Old 01-12-2003, 04:37 AM   #2
iceman47
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Ok, did some searching on the subject and came up with this:
NTLDR stands for NT loader
here (http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm) is some info about the problem.
This is a link
(http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;314057) to M$'s support site where they tell how to fix it.
You should be able to boot into windows by using a bootable diskette or your win2000/xp cdrom.
From what I've read, I don't think you'll be able to fix this in RedHat.
Make sure you have a bootdisk for your RedHat, just in case
Good luck
 
Old 01-12-2003, 02:11 PM   #3
Lontro
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Yep this is a behavior of the Windows XP Bootloader and his problems with LBA on FAT32.

I suggest that you convert the first partition to NTFS.
You must follow this instructions from Microsoft in the upper URL.
 
Old 01-12-2003, 08:59 PM   #4
deadbug
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Follow the instructions to get rid of the "NTLDR is Missing" error, then set up NTLDR to boot Red Hat. The most complicated part of your boot sequence is the interrelationship between Win2K and WinXP. Most boot loaders are built to separate operating systems and allow you to pick one. Booting an NT program that is on a Logical partition without NTLDR's tieing it to the first primary partition involves a deep understanding of something like Grub.

With NTLDR, it is already set and you just have to add Red Hat. So before you do anything, make sure you have a boot disk so you can get back into Red Hat.

Okay, down at the bottom of the Microsoft article in the second URL from above are instruction for starting the Rescue Console. If you can't boot XP, this can also be done from the Installation CD. In Rescue Console, type:

fixmbr
fixboot

These two commands should get your 2K & XP systems back up. Now, reboot with the RH boot disk and log on as root. When you get to the desktop, unmount the boot floppy (remove it), put a blank floppy in the drive and remount it (right click the desktop, disks, floppy).

First, set Grub up to boot from the Linux partition (basically, to be triggered by NTLDR). Start button in the lower left, Run Program. Enter this command:

/sbin/grub-install /dev/hda3

Next, get the boot image file NTLDR will need. In the same Run Program window, type this:

dd if=/dev/hda3 of=/dev/fd0/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1

You should see it report 1 record in and 1 record out.

Exit Linux and reboot Windows--either one.

Using file manager or at a Cmd prompt, copy the bootsect.lnx file from the floppy (A:\) to C:\ (the root portion). The Cmd line command would look like this:

copy a:\bootsect.lnx c:\bootsect.lnx

The rest of this is easiest at the Cmd prompt. Type these commands:

attrib -r -a -s -h c:\boot.ini
edit c:\boot.ini

At the bottom of the file, add this line:

C:\bootsect.lnx="Red Hat Linux"

Save the file and exit.

Reboot your computer and you should have NTLDR giving you the choice of Windows XP, Windows 2000 and Red Hat Linux.

Last edited by deadbug; 01-13-2003 at 07:05 AM.
 
Old 01-13-2003, 12:09 AM   #5
snake
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Distribution: Redhat 7.3
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But both the links focus NOT on linux, dont you think? The first link looks helpful.. but I'm scared to try it, do you think it'll rectify the whole problem?
 
Old 01-13-2003, 06:51 AM   #6
deadbug
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What are you scared of? That your computer won't boot? As I read your post, you already have that problem.

Look, you did something to a computer and now it doesn't work. You're concerned that you will make it worse instead of better.

Welcome to computer hacking. There isn't one of us who hasn't stared at and wondered if we weren't just making it worse with every new step we took. It goes with the territory. Most of us approach it with a refusal to let the problem win.

Here is what we are trying to walk you through:

The Linux boot loader, which is a very good one, didn't set itself up properly for your two NT programs (Win2K & WinXP). There are three ways to fix this:

1. Fix the Grub configuration file. There is more than enough expertise on this forum to walk you through that. The complicated part will be starting XP from a logical partition. What NTLDR does automatically, will have to be done manually here.

2. Try Linux's other boot loader, LILO. LILO and Grub approach the system differently. Often times when one has install problems, the other works just fine. You can find another post where I said LILO is the one I'm least proficient with--I don't use it. But 75% of the folks here do. So, again, there is the expertise to walk you through configuration problems, which I think you will have with LILO also.

3. Put Microsoft's boot loaders back on the system the way they were originally installed and boot Linux through them.

So, why am I, on a Linux fourm, advocating the Microsoft solution? Because the MS boot loader was designed for a complicated, dual-Windows installation (that is why XP installed the way it did). The Linux boot loaders were designed for complex Linux boots, but only simple non-Linux boots. They literally just throw the boot pointer to the beginning of the Windows partition and tell Windows to take it from there. This is more than enough when you have a basic Window-Linux dual boot system.

My primary system has just Red Hat 8.0 on it and uses Grub as the boot loader. You can find several posts of mine on this forum where I walk folks through Grub configuration problems and tell them where to look in the Grub manual for more information. I am deep into that manual several times a week. Basically, I like Grub.

One of my other systems is similar to yours--I have Win98SE, Win2K and Mandrake 9.0. They were installed in that order and Win2K did on my computer what XP did on yours--nestled itself into a logical partition that NTLDR was booting as a default. When I added Mandrake, I did not change the boot loader, I just merely added Mandrake to NTLDR and it all works great.

Like I said earlier, the compicated part is booting a Windows program from a logical partition. Booting Linux is easy--anything will boot it. Only the NTLDR properly configures itself to boot a dual-Windows system; everything else usually has to be manually configured.

So, scared or not, you need to pick one of the three solutions above (or a fourth if you can come up with it). Think about it and just post back with which one you want and we'll walk you through it.

Last edited by deadbug; 01-13-2003 at 06:55 AM.
 
Old 01-13-2003, 12:31 PM   #7
snake
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Distribution: Redhat 7.3
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That was an awesome reply. You got attitude man, I don't mean the wrong type of attitude, the good type I mean. Keep it up.

Well yes, I'll go thru with one.. but as quoted.

<snip>
One of my other systems is similar to yours--I have Win98SE, Win2K and Mandrake 9.0. They were installed in that order and Win2K did on my computer what XP did on yours--nestled itself into a logical partition that NTLDR was booting as a default. When I added Mandrake, I did not change the boot loader, I just merely added Mandrake to NTLDR and it all works great.
<snip>

I'd like to do this same thing. But before that I may have to remove grub (for which i'll need help) and then, boot into windows (for which I'll again need help) and then do the editing to the NTLDR to add my Redhat 7.3 to it's list (damn, again I'll need help on this)

So much help I need, I'm willing to follow what you did to your mandy system, just please dont get impatient.. and help me out.

Once again, keep up that style of yours man. It's good.


PS: BTW, My computer DOES boot, it boots into RH. I just dont have a way to be *able* to boot into the other MS OSes.

Last edited by snake; 01-13-2003 at 12:33 PM.
 
Old 01-13-2003, 08:00 PM   #8
deadbug
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Let's do this one step at a time. We want to set Linux up and get everything we need before we start configuring the NTLDR--before we remove the Grub boot loader from the Master Boot Record (MBR), we want to set up other ways to boot Linux

First, let's make sure you have a boot disk. You should have made one when you installed the program. If you didn't, or if you've installed a new kernel, now is the time to make one.

Boot Linux and log on as root. When Grub starts up, before hitting return, note the kernel number (2.4.18-4 or something like that). If you miss it, open a terminal window and type:

uname -r

Then put a floppy in the disk drive and type this:

/sbin/mkbootdisk 2.4.18-4

Replace the kernel number with yours. This will make you a current boot disk.

Test it. Reboot your computer from the floppy (this may involve changing the CMOS settings). If this doesn't start Linux, go no farther. Repeat the previous procedure and post the details if it still doesn't work.

Okay, if you are at this point, you now have two ways to boot your computer--from the hardrive and the boot disk--and both work.

From my previous post, we're changing the order a little. Boot Linux as root and follow the commands above to make the move Grub's boot location and to gather a file of the Red Hat boot image.

When you've done that, remove the disk and boot the XP CD. Bring up the Rescue Console and type the fixmbr and fixboot commands listed above. Reboot the computer.

You now should have a computer that boots Windows from the hard disk and Linux from a floppy. When you've verified that Windows boots okay (both Win2K and WinXP). You're ready to add the boot image to Windows' boot.ini as instructed above.

That done, you should have a computer that will let you boot all three operating systems.

Along the way, you might have probelms or a question. Ask. If you don't want to post it, email it to me.

Good luck
 
Old 01-15-2003, 09:46 PM   #9
snake
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Distribution: Redhat 7.3
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Ok, deadbug.. sorry for the downtime.

Our net connection for some reason got disconnected, and it took us two days to get it reactivated.

Now, after the fixmbr and fixboot, as thought that the windows OSes will be back, it proved us wrong. As soon as I did that, and rebooted, I Just wanted to see that the NTLDR shows up or not. But it did'nt. It said NTLDR is missing, press any key to restart.

I have'nt gone ahead and done the grub-install yet, nor the other things following the grub install.

Please guide me. :/
 
Old 01-15-2003, 10:07 PM   #10
deadbug
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We're almost there. The second thread from above had a procedure to replace the system files on C:\ -- did you do that? It involved formatting a disk with system files and adding sys.com to it. Boot from the floppy and issue this command:

sys c:\

If you haven't done that, go ahead and try it.

Post back here what the results were.
 
Old 01-16-2003, 04:11 PM   #11
snake
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Distribution: Redhat 7.3
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I dont know if this browser isn't allowing me to see that :/ But I dont see those steps of changing the files in windows. Infact, everything is pretty jumbled up too, your post just now was shown to be *before* or *above* my post. Weird, heh...


Anyways, please give me the steps involved again, can you? (not till where I've done.. but after that what you told have to be done on windows after booting up thru the win startup disk)

Thanks alot.
 
Old 01-16-2003, 05:53 PM   #12
deadbug
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snake, no problem, but I'm not sure where to pick up at--what is the last successful thing you were able to do and are you unsuccessfully trying something now.

As I understand it, you are still getting the "NTLDR not found" error. This is caused when you meet three conditions:

1. Windows is installed on a FAT32 partition (in your case, Win2K). According to Microsoft, this would be a preinstalled program from a manufacturer.

2. A Window NT program (NT 4.0, Win2K or XP) is installed as a second Windows program on an NTFS partition (in your case, XP on a logical drive)

3. The partitions are subsequently altered in size.

The NT programs (and you have two) are looking for everything to be the same as the last installation and it is no longer finding that.

The fix is pretty simple. Get a DOS boot disk with sys.com. If you have another Windows computer (with XP), you could get it there. The easiest way, tho, is to boot from the boot disk (or the XP CD) and get it to start Window or give you a Command prompt to work from.

If you can start Windows, open Microsoft Explorer (right click the Start button and select Explore). On the left side, scroll up to A:\ drive. Put a blank floppy in the drive and right click on A:\ drive line. About 3/4 of the way down the menu is the format option. Select it and it will bring up a format window. The bottom option is to include system files--make sure this is checked. Select format.

Scroll down to D:\WinNT\Command (or whatever your XP drive is if it isn't D:\) and highlight it. On the right side will appear the directory contents. Find sys.com and copy it to A:\. Do the same with fdisk.exe.

If you only get a Command Prompt, type these commands:

Format a:\
Sys a:\
Copy d:\winnt\command\sys.com a:\
Copy d:\winnt\command\fdisk.exe a:\

Change d:\ to whatever drive letter your XP partition is being assigned.

This should give you a DOS boot disk. Boot the computer from it and at the A:\ prompt, type:

sys c:\

Try rebooting your system.

Now, if you are beyond this point, let me know where you are at.
 
Old 01-19-2003, 11:35 PM   #13
snake
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Sorry again for the 2 day delay deadbug. No one had the win98 OS with them, so I had to do random things to get a boot disk with sys.com on it.

Anyways, when I booted the PC with the bootdisk, and from the prompt I entered:

sys c:\
Missing parameters

was its error :/
 
Old 01-20-2003, 04:33 PM   #14
deadbug
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Put the Win2K install CD in and boot from it. That should bring up Win2K and you can determine what drive it thinks it is on. Issue the sys command to that drive.
 
Old 01-20-2003, 10:54 PM   #15
snake
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I dont have the win2K CD with me

God, I'm so sorry about this hassle deadbug.. thanks a lot over and over.
 
  


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