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Old 05-11-2007, 10:05 PM   #1
mhg
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NOOBs first rant


Hi All,

Just got Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS installed with XP. Install went OK thanks to much help from this forum.

Fist off, I am willing to put some effort into this. All I have done so far is troll around the forums a bit, so have not given myself a fair chance. I intend to.

So I figure I may as well try downloading and installing an app in Ubuntu. Can't be that hard can it? Wrong.

Might as well start with a firewall, and the first I run across is Lokkit. Download it, but synaptic can't do anything with it. The web site with the download says this app depends on these packages, and lists no less that 18 packages! Is this normal? I am seriously hoping that many of these packages are used with other apps so I'm not going through this every time I want a new app.

I'm writing this kind of tongue in cheek. I hope I can read this in the very near future and be embarrassed by it.

I found a beginners lesson on Linux.org and will read through that when time allows. Is this going to take months of research to be able to install new apps?

I'm not really ranting that much, I guess I had hoped it would be a bit easier for something that seems so basic as installing a new app.

Thanks for your patience
 
Old 05-11-2007, 10:24 PM   #2
Yxven
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Honestly, downloading and installing apps has been rough for me. It's odd figuring out how to compile stuff.

However, it's easy to use the package managers. Under applications, there's add/remove. You just search for what you want, and it'll install it for you.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 10:25 PM   #3
jay73
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Dependencies are normal; they are what is required for a particular piece of software to function properly. After all, software usually does not work in isolation but needs to link with other pieces of software. A video player, for example, needs separate components to handle sound, image, recording, etc etc.

Anyway, as you download more, the number of dependencies should diminish because many of those components are shared. Still, you will see plenty at first.

btw, Synaptic will take care of everything; just select your application and Synaptic will automatically fetch the rest.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 11:00 PM   #4
2damncommon
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Which version of ubuntu?
I had tried a previous version of Kubuntu and had a lot of problems with the updates and software installer. The current version of ubuntu seems to work much better for me.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 11:06 PM   #5
masonm
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That's why libs were created in the first place. many apps share common libraries reducing the amount of work the developer has to do by not having to reinvent the wheel each time.

As already mentioned, as you install more apps the number of deps will decrease as you'll already have them installed.

Nothing could be easier than Synaptic. Beats crawling the web searching for some arcane library hiding on a server in a basement in Albania LOL.
 
Old 05-12-2007, 02:20 PM   #6
blackout8
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I seem to be having similiar troubles rpm packages downloaded with the Yast package manager(am running Suse 10.1) seems to be as simple as making sure i have the correct Rpm for my distro and the installer does all the work or simply type yast -i <packagename>... but the problems occurs with tar balls, after extracting I type ./configure....
scrolls through a long list of system checks and eventually I get the error message
checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
I can not seem to find ktorrent.rpm for Suse 10.1 there has to be one right? or i would go that route.
even still i would like to resolve the x error message for compiling and install tar packages in the future.

stuck
 
Old 05-12-2007, 09:24 PM   #7
mhg
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i still say it shouldn't be this hard

I am using V6.10, (edgy?)

OK, the add/remove apps is pretty cool, but what if what I want is not there?

I have yet to download anything that I can open/use with synaptic package manager. I figured trying this Lokkit firewall is as easy a test as anything else (I have yet to find anything in the add/remove that is described as a firewall). So I go back to the download page I found (http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/wart...e/gnome-lokkit) and try downloading the first package that is listed as "depends", save it to desktop, try to open with package manager, nothing.

I have been trying to read more. Seems everything I read is command based. Trying to find files with a command line? Make a new directory with a command line? I already know I don't have to do that, I can make a new folder easily enough with Ubuntu, drag and drop it where I want. It is more that a bit confusing, I read in the forums and everyone is giving advice to use this and that command line. I may as well be reading hieroglyphics.

I did experiment with the add/remove. Downloaded a CD ripper. I can see how cool a tool it is, if I'm lucky enough to find what I want listed there.

Alright, I admit, this is a rant.
 
Old 05-12-2007, 09:35 PM   #8
jay73
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Well, you should refrain frrom installing anything that is not included in Synaptic - precisely because it is likely to produce dependency issues. Stick with Synaptic and it won't happen. Of course, if you feel Synaptic doesn't provide enough packages, it is quite possible that you haven't set up all of the repositories. Those can be specified in /etc/apt/sources.list; just to give you an idea, mine looks like this:

Code:
# 
# deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 6.10 _Edgy Eft_ - Release i386 (20061025.1)]/ edgy main restricted


#deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 6.10 _Edgy Eft_ - Release i386 (20061025.1)]/ edgy main restricted

#deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy main restricted
#deb-src http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy main restricted

## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
## distribution.
#deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy-updates main restricted
#deb-src http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy-updates main restricted

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'universe'
## repository.
## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
## universe WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu security
## team.
# deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy universe
# deb-src http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy universe

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
## repository.
## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review
## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
# deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
# deb-src http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ edgy-backports main restricted universe multiverse


deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted
# deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security universe
# deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security universe

deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main restricted universe multiverse

deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-proposed main restricted universe multiverse

## MAJOR BUG FIX UPDATES produced after the final release
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-updates main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-updates main restricted universe multiverse

## UBUNTU SECURITY UPDATES
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted universe multiverse

## BACKPORTS REPOSITORY (Unsupported.  May contain illegal packages.  Use at own risk.)
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-backports main restricted universe multiverse

## PLF REPOSITORY (Unsupported.  May contain illegal packages.  Use at own risk.)
deb http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/repo/ edgy free
deb http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/repo/ edgy non-free
deb-src http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/repo/ edgy free
deb-src http://medibuntu.sos-sts.com/repo/ edgy non-free
                                                                                                                                         
## CANONICAL COMMERCIAL REPOSITORY (Hosted on Canonical servers, not Ubuntu
## servers. RealPlayer10, Opera, DesktopSecure and more to come.) 
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu edgy-commercial main

## Listen
#deb http://theli.free.fr/packages/ edgy listen

# Automatically generated sources.list
# http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/
#
# If you get GPG errors with this sources.list, locate the GPG key in this file
# and run these commands (where KEY is replaced with that key)
#
# gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys KEY
# gpg --export --armor KEY | sudo apt-key add -

# Ubuntu supported packages
# GPG key: 437D05B5
deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy main restricted 
deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-updates main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security main restricted

# Ubuntu community supported packages
# GPG key: 437D05B5
deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy universe multiverse 
deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-updates universe multiverse
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-security universe multiverse

# Seveas' Ubuntu Packages
# GPG key: 1135D466
deb http://mirror2.ubuntulinux.nl/ edgy-seveas all 

# Ubuntu backports project
# GPG key: 437D05B5
deb http://be.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy-backports main restricted universe multiverse 

# Kubuntu.org bleeding edge KDE
# GPG key: DD4D5088
deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-latest edgy main 

# Kubuntu.org bleeding edge Koffice
# GPG key: DD4D5088
deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/koffice-latest edgy main 

# Kubuntu.org bleeding edge amaroK
# GPG key: DD4D5088
deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-latest edgy main 

# Upstream Wine
# GPG key: 387EE263
deb http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/apt edgy main 

# Upstream Opera
deb http://deb.opera.com/opera etch non-free 

# bzr nightly snapshots
deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr ./ 

# Upstream Beryl
# GPG key: ed8a569e
deb http://www.beerorkid.com/compiz edgy main-edgy 

# Canonical Commercial packages
# GPG key: 437D05B5
deb http://archive.canonical.com edgy-commercial main
 
Old 05-12-2007, 11:40 PM   #9
osor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhg
I am using V6.10, (edgy?)

OK, the add/remove apps is pretty cool, but what if what I want is not there?

I have yet to download anything that I can open/use with synaptic package manager. I figured trying this Lokkit firewall is as easy a test as anything else (I have yet to find anything in the add/remove that is described as a firewall). So I go back to the download page I found (http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/wart...e/gnome-lokkit) and try downloading the first package that is listed as "depends", save it to desktop, try to open with package manager, nothing.

I have been trying to read more. Seems everything I read is command based. Trying to find files with a command line? Make a new directory with a command line? I already know I don't have to do that, I can make a new folder easily enough with Ubuntu, drag and drop it where I want. It is more that a bit confusing, I read in the forums and everyone is giving advice to use this and that command line. I may as well be reading hieroglyphics.

I did experiment with the add/remove. Downloaded a CD ripper. I can see how cool a tool it is, if I'm lucky enough to find what I want listed there.

Alright, I admit, this is a rant.
I didnít quite understand. Did you actually get lokkit installed? Generally, using a package manager is the opposite of doing it yourself. So no going to a website to hunt down a package, no downloading it explicitly, etc. You open up Synaptic, search for whatever app you want (Iím pretty sure lokkit will be in there), and mark it for installation. Then you click apply (or something like that), whereby it fetches all the dependencies for you, downloads them, and then installs them.
 
Old 05-13-2007, 02:04 AM   #10
AceofSpades19
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add/remove programs is different then synaptic, and to install a .deb package just double click (single click?) on it and the package manager will take care of it
 
Old 05-13-2007, 05:43 PM   #11
mhg
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I did not get Lokkit installed. I can not find it in synaptic. I do not yet know how to set up the repositories. It would appear that is my next learning task.

Another quick question if you have the patience.

I have yet to find a way to show all my directories in a tree? if that is the correct term. I'm looking for something that would show me something similar to the "folders" look in MS. Not sure if that makes sense.

I'm jammed for time, so have done a lot, but I can see it is going to be fun comparing Ubuntu to PCLinuxOS. PCLinuxOS did install my sound card, and Ubuntu did not.

Thanks for the help and the patience. I will need to learn how to get the repositories set up.
 
Old 05-13-2007, 06:57 PM   #12
AceofSpades19
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just download the lokkit .deb package and double click on it
 
Old 05-13-2007, 07:30 PM   #13
jay73
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Lokkit does appear in my Synaptic list - so obviously it is a matter of setting up the right repositories.

You can add extra repositories using the Software Sources application, which can be found in the menu: System -> Administration -> Software Sources. Check the repositories you think you will need (main, universe, restricted, multiverse). You probably won't need the 'sources' repository.

Showing your directories in a tree the MS way does make sense and it is not difficult at all:
- bring up a window, for example by going to Places > Computer or Places > Home
- there should be a pane on the left side; it shows "places" by default. Click on the "places" button and select "tree" instead.

And yes, PCLinuxOS does have somewhat better hardware support as I probably pointed out in one of my first posts on the subject. Still, it shouldn't be too difficult to get that sound card going under Ubuntu as well.
- start by checking whether the volume is not simply muted: left-click on the speaker icon on the taskbar to find out; or right-click on it and verify that the "muted" option is not selected
- another possibility is that you need to play a bit around with the Volume Control first: right-click the speaker icon and select "Open Volume Control", then check whether everything is properly turned up.
- if this does not solve it, you should bring up a terminal from Applications > Accessories > Terminal and type in
alsaconf
and follow the instructions; this should get it going although you may still need to verify the setting from the Volume Control panel.

Last edited by jay73; 05-13-2007 at 07:32 PM.
 
Old 05-13-2007, 07:35 PM   #14
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhg
OK, the add/remove apps is pretty cool, but what if what I want is not there?
The best thing to do is look for an Ubuntu package repository which has a package of the software you want and add it to your /etc/apt/sources.list file. Then you can install the package with this:
Code:
apt-get install packagename
You should not have to compile anything under Ubuntu these days. To be honest, I feel sorry for anyone who tries. If you feel the need to compile software, there are other distributions which are better suited to it.

Something which confuses me, though: A firewall "package" under Linux doesn't need to be anything nothing more than a simple shell script, because packet filtering is built into the kernel. It only needs to be told what to do...

Last edited by rkelsen; 05-13-2007 at 07:38 PM.
 
Old 05-13-2007, 07:45 PM   #15
WOP1337
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I find that doing a full install of a distro takes care of a lot of dependency problems. For instance, I use Slackware and did the Full 3gig of data option when I installed the OS. I did the same with Fedora when I used that (at the bottom check install everything) and a of libs and other things that programs that you might want in the future will have allready been installed one your system. At the very least, most likely a couple of them. As you get more experienced, you can delete some programs if you find you will never use it and any programs in the future wont either. Its a lot easier to get the full install and config your system by unloading modules and other services and deleting what you do not need as opposed to doing a minimum install and having a bad time doing so many installs later.
 
  


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