LinuxQuestions.org
Share your knowledge at the LQ Wiki.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 09-29-2011, 05:03 AM   #106
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
They were written over. The partitions, filesystems, and all the files were all over-written.

You can test this yourself with a USB key. Make some partitions on it. Make some filesystems on those partitions. Try deleting the partitions, then make them again, and make some new filesystems. You will notice that any files you had before will be gone, and you won't be able to find them.



Your theory proofs that data is losable. of course data is losable. That is irrelevant. I already knew that it is almost impossible to find lost data. If the lost data wasn't lost, it would be found, it would be safe, recovered, there, see able, and not invisible. There would not be a problem.



Lost data isn't the same as no data.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:06 AM   #107
snooly
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 124

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyArnold View Post
Why and how would 80 GBs of free space, of free nothingness, kill invisible lost data files?

---------- Post added 09-29-11 at 05:00 AM ----------





Your theory proofs that you can lose data.
Imagine that you have a piece of paper, and you write the names and phone numbers of all your girlfriends on it. You only write them on this one piece of paper, you have no other copies.

Then you take your piece of paper, and set it on fire and watch it until it is all burnt up. After that, you go to the shop and buy a new piece of paper. Will the new piece of paper have all your girlfriends' names and phone numbers on it? Of course it won't.

Similarly, once you delete your partitions, create new partitions, create new filesystems, and put new data on those filesystems, the old files are gone.

Obviously that's not the answer you want, but that's the way it is. You should ask FreeGeek to help you if they think they can.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:09 AM   #108
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
They were written over. The partitions, filesystems, and all the files were all over-written.

You can test this yourself with a USB key. Make some partitions on it. Make some filesystems on those partitions. Try deleting the partitions, then make them again, and make some new filesystems. You will notice that any files you had before will be gone, and you won't be able to find them.


This theory of yours isn't an adequate way of recovering lost data in such manner because even I know recovery is not that simple.

Data is like stuff in a house. The different rooms are the partitions and file systems and directories and structures.

If you burn down a house, not everything in it will vanish. Maybe a metal money chest will survive. Maybe gold will survive. Maybe a sword will survive.

You are saying that if you build a new house in the same place where the old house burnt down, of course the stuff won't be in it because the stuff is scattered outside all over on the ground and some of it is in pieces.

But you can still pick up some of these pieces, these files, the lost data, the lost boys from Never Ever Land of Peter Pan.
 
0 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-29-2011, 05:11 AM   #109
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
Imagine that you have a piece of paper, and you write the names and phone numbers of all your girlfriends on it. You only write them on this one piece of paper, you have no other copies.

Then you take your piece of paper, and set it on fire and watch it until it is all burnt up. After that, you go to the shop and buy a new piece of paper. Will the new piece of paper have all your girlfriends' names and phone numbers on it? Of course it won't.

Similarly, once you delete your partitions, create new partitions, create new filesystems, and put new data on those filesystems, the old files are gone.

Obviously that's not the answer you want, but that's the way it is. You should ask FreeGeek to help you if they think they can.




When a file is deleted, it doesn't burn up like paper.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:13 AM   #110
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
Imagine that you have a piece of paper, and you write the names and phone numbers of all your girlfriends on it. You only write them on this one piece of paper, you have no other copies.

Then you take your piece of paper, and set it on fire and watch it until it is all burnt up. After that, you go to the shop and buy a new piece of paper. Will the new piece of paper have all your girlfriends' names and phone numbers on it? Of course it won't.

Similarly, once you delete your partitions, create new partitions, create new filesystems, and put new data on those filesystems, the old files are gone.

Obviously that's not the answer you want, but that's the way it is. You should ask FreeGeek to help you if they think they can.


If deleting a file is like burning paper, then what in the world is the recycling bin?
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:15 AM   #111
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
Imagine that you have a piece of paper, and you write the names and phone numbers of all your girlfriends on it. You only write them on this one piece of paper, you have no other copies.

Then you take your piece of paper, and set it on fire and watch it until it is all burnt up. After that, you go to the shop and buy a new piece of paper. Will the new piece of paper have all your girlfriends' names and phone numbers on it? Of course it won't.

Similarly, once you delete your partitions, create new partitions, create new filesystems, and put new data on those filesystems, the old files are gone.

Obviously that's not the answer you want, but that's the way it is. You should ask FreeGeek to help you if they think they can.




The Paper-burning data theory contradicts what computer experts tell me about about how data works.

They say that when a file is deleted, that it is simply moved to a blocked sector.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:17 AM   #112
snooly
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 124

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
You didn't delete your files, you deleted the partitions and the filesystems, right? A deleted file in the "recycle bin" can be pulled back out, because it's not really deleted, it's just been moved into a "recycle bin" directory.

This is more like you put something into the recycle bin, then blew up the recycle bin and the whole house with a nuclear bomb. Once you built a new house on the same spot, you won't find your files sitting there in the bin.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:17 AM   #113
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
Imagine that you have a piece of paper, and you write the names and phone numbers of all your girlfriends on it. You only write them on this one piece of paper, you have no other copies.

Then you take your piece of paper, and set it on fire and watch it until it is all burnt up. After that, you go to the shop and buy a new piece of paper. Will the new piece of paper have all your girlfriends' names and phone numbers on it? Of course it won't.

Similarly, once you delete your partitions, create new partitions, create new filesystems, and put new data on those filesystems, the old files are gone.

Obviously that's not the answer you want, but that's the way it is. You should ask FreeGeek to help you if they think they can.



If the file systems and directories and partitions are like paper, and if they get burnt up, then I will be looking for the traces of the letters, the data, from the papers. I will find the letters on the ground or in the fire. The letters will still be there. I will simply put everything back together like a puzzle or like a surgeon.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:22 AM   #114
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
You didn't delete your files, you deleted the partitions and the filesystems, right? A deleted file in the "recycle bin" can be pulled back out, because it's not really deleted, it's just been moved into a "recycle bin" directory.

This is more like you put something into the recycle bin, then blew up the recycle bin and the whole house with a nuclear bomb. Once you built a new house on the same spot, you won't find your files sitting there in the bin.




First: Files first go to the recycling bin.

Secondly: if you delete it out of the recyling bin, they disappear.

Third: if you lose the paper or the house or the horse: it gets even harder to find.

Fourth: data will die if it is reconfigured or rewrittened over.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:23 AM   #115
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
You didn't delete your files, you deleted the partitions and the filesystems, right? A deleted file in the "recycle bin" can be pulled back out, because it's not really deleted, it's just been moved into a "recycle bin" directory.

This is more like you put something into the recycle bin, then blew up the recycle bin and the whole house with a nuclear bomb. Once you built a new house on the same spot, you won't find your files sitting there in the bin.




I didn't delete partitions, the computer just kind of reset itself.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:24 AM   #116
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
You didn't delete your files, you deleted the partitions and the filesystems, right? A deleted file in the "recycle bin" can be pulled back out, because it's not really deleted, it's just been moved into a "recycle bin" directory.

This is more like you put something into the recycle bin, then blew up the recycle bin and the whole house with a nuclear bomb. Once you built a new house on the same spot, you won't find your files sitting there in the bin.




I use to think that data was losable too, like you do now, until people shown me the light, and told me that data is like water.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:26 AM   #117
snooly
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 124

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyArnold View Post
I use to think that data was losable too, like you do now, until people shown me the light, and told me that data is like water.
If only those people were here to tell you how to get your data back. Obviously those people must be much smarter than me!
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:32 AM   #118
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
If only those people were here to tell you how to get your data back. Obviously those people must be much smarter than me!



maybe somebody will come here and tell us about the concept of blocked sectors
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:47 AM   #119
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
If only those people were here to tell you how to get your data back. Obviously those people must be much smarter than me!
first a file is moved to the recyling room, and then it may be moved to the basement, and then later to under the house and into the sewer where it gets lost with no lights and no ability to find it, but it is there in the darkness, underneath the computer house.

If the house burns down, the lost data will still be underground, under the house, but not in the house, and most users will assume that the data is lost forever because it is unfindable.

If they write onto the house, they will suck up the lost data and turn that matter of zeros and ones of binary codes of the lost data and turn the lost data into new data.



Lost data is not gone data until it is new data.


A DVD-RW of videos, if you could lose the data, the videos, on it, will then be lost until you find a way to find the videos, the data, on it, until you record new videos onto the DVD-RW, write over the top of it, run right over it.

Same goes for HD hard drives.

Data stays there until you record over it.

Last edited by JoeyArnold; 09-29-2011 at 05:50 AM.
 
Old 09-29-2011, 05:54 AM   #120
JoeyArnold
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 153

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by snooly View Post
You didn't delete your files, you deleted the partitions and the filesystems, right? A deleted file in the "recycle bin" can be pulled back out, because it's not really deleted, it's just been moved into a "recycle bin" directory.

This is more like you put something into the recycle bin, then blew up the recycle bin and the whole house with a nuclear bomb. Once you built a new house on the same spot, you won't find your files sitting there in the bin.


I already know my lost data wouldn't be in some recycling bin. If I knew where my data was, it would only be deleted data instead of lost data. If the data was in my recycling bin, then I would know where my data was. I don't call that lost. To me, lost means not findable.
 
  


Reply

Tags
cd, eject, howto, terminal, ubuntu 11.04, undelete


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mac File Undelete Software, Undelete Mac files liesnsys Linux - Hardware 3 07-23-2009 09:50 PM
gnome parts stop working or vanish from Ubuntu Hardy SaintDanBert Linux - Desktop 1 01-28-2009 11:05 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:28 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration