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Old 12-27-2015, 12:57 PM   #1
RobertDepelteau
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Newbie Linux Operator Will Be Here A Lot And Thank You.


Hello friends, I'm in the process of terminating my "windows" lifelong usage, and about to migrate to Linux. I almost did it a few years back, in 2010, but got frustrated and went back to windows. Now I'm going in again, this time perhaps for good. If I can get somewhat articulate in operating Linux that would be great, I certainly desire to to make this my OS of choice for many reasons, one of them being the vast libraries of Unix software available. Then I want to work with Raspberry Pi, got a few projects already on the board, cctv server, media center etc. Lots to do. My first DL was Debian Jessie, installed minimal system, but can't get into the graphical interface. All I get is the prompt, I tried with gnome-session that didn't get nowhere, startx neither, tried echo "exec gnome-session" >/. xinitc and that didn't work either. So now I'm going with ubuntu, see if I can get a graphic interface. My first recommendation to Linux OS developpers is; make a system that installs and runs like windows does. Then I can get into the prompt from the window and run the commands, or at least try to get somethings done. Now the debian prompt is useless to me, I don't know the commands to display anything, run anything, show anything. The help commands doesn't tell me what to write to get anything done. I might as well get rid of it....

If someone can help me start the gnome, that would be great.
I don't know what to do other than try another distro.

Very frustrating first steps.

Last edited by RobertDepelteau; 12-27-2015 at 01:04 PM.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:17 PM   #2
jdkaye
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Hi and welcome to LQ. I'm sure you'll be articulate in Linux in no time at all. Now to your problem.
Quote:
My first DL was Debian Jessie, installed minimal system, but can't get into the graphical interface.
1. Regarding Debian, did you download the iso file from the Debian website?
2. Are you sure that the Debian "minimal system" even contains an graphical user interface? If you try the normal Debian installation process (I'd suggest the netinst method if you have a working network connection) it will ask you which Desktop Environment you wish to install. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "minimal system" so I can't guarantee that this is the cause of your problem.
3.
Quote:
My first recommendation to Linux OS developpers is; make a system that installs and runs like windows does. Then I can get into the prompt from the window and run the commands, or at least try to get somethings done.
This is pretty much the way Debian works when it's installed with a GUI. You boot up and it takes you right into your Desktop Environment. Again, I'd suggest you try a "normal" installation and life should be much easier for you.
Have fun.
jdk
 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:40 PM   #3
astrogeek
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Hello and welcome to LQ - and GNU/Linux!

I am not a Debian or 'Buntu or Gnome user so can't be much help with your immediate difficulties, but I am sure someone will be along shortly who can!

But I will encourage you to stick with it and learn both the new operating system and software, and the philosophical differences from your current perspective as a window$ user.

If you have been looking into Linux for a few years you have undoubtedly read "Linux is not wiondw$", perhaps in different words and contexts, but it is worth repeating and in many ways the key to a successful transition to Linux!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertDepelteau View Post
My first recommendation to Linux OS developpers is; make a system that installs and runs like windows does. Then I can get into the prompt from the window and run the commands
As long as you expect your Linux experience to be like your window$ experience, but with a different logo, you will never be happy. The reason is that Linux is not window$! It is fundamentally different, and better! Understand and embrace the difference!

And if it is correct to think that at least part of your desire to transition to Linux is to be free of the corporate shackles that come with window$, think of that aspect as an end in itself and try to not think entirely in terms of performance or technical specifications (even though Linux wins that race too!).

The reason for FREE software is FREEDOM! And with freedom comes increased responsibility. That doesn't mean it is difficult - it isn't! But it does mean that you will need to learn a few new things, so just remember that every bridge you have to cross is one bridge closer to your goal!

And avoid the trap that many fall into, thinking "This is harder than windows$!". It isn't harder - just different! You weren't born knowing how to use window$ either! You learned all those habits slowly over a long period of time! Expect it, and remember that as in all things, you will be rewarded in proportion to the effort you put into it!

I hope these thoughts are helpful, offered in the best spirit of encouragement! Go get 'em!

Anyway, best of luck! And best wishes for the coming year, may it bring you peace and confidence as you move forward along your new GNU/Linux journey!
 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:45 PM   #4
RobertDepelteau
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Original Poster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkaye View Post
Hi and welcome to LQ. I'm sure you'll be articulate in Linux in no time at all. Now to your problem.

1. Regarding Debian, did you download the iso file from the Debian website?
Yes I did.

Quote:
2. Are you sure that the Debian "minimal system" even contains an graphical user interface? If you try the normal Debian installation process (I'd suggest the netinst method if you have a working network connection) it will ask you which Desktop Environment you wish to install. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "minimal system" so I can't guarantee that this is the cause of your problem.
No I'm not sure if it contains a graphical interface.
And no this computer is not on the internet yet, I have to go wireless first.
The install said that because I did not have internet it would install a "minimal system" .

Quote:
3.
This is pretty much the way Debian works when it's installed with a GUI. You boot up and it takes you right into your Desktop Environment. Again, I'd suggest you try a "normal" installation and life should be much easier for you.
Have fun.

jdk
I'm installing ubuntu now, I gave up on Debian. I'll probably try it later, on another computer (maybe).

Thanks for your quick reply, you took me by surprise. I look forward to being a little more than a very green newbie.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 01:51 PM   #5
RobertDepelteau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrogeek View Post
Hello and welcome to LQ - and GNU/Linux!

I am not a Debian or 'Buntu or Gnome user so can't be much help with your immediate difficulties, but I am sure someone will be along shortly who can!

But I will encourage you to stick with it and learn both the new operating system and software, and the philosophical differences from your current perspective as a window$ user.

If you have been looking into Linux for a few years you have undoubtedly read "Linux is not wiondw$", perhaps in different words and contexts, but it is worth repeating and in many ways the key to a successful transition to Linux!



As long as you expect your Linux experience to be like your window$ experience, but with a different logo, you will never be happy. The reason is that Linux is not window$! It is fundamentally different, and better! Understand and embrace the difference!

And if it is correct to think that at least part of your desire to transition to Linux is to be free of the corporate shackles that come with window$, think of that aspect as an end in itself and try to not think entirely in terms of performance or technical specifications (even though Linux wins that race too!).

The reason for FREE software is FREEDOM! And with freedom comes increased responsibility. That doesn't mean it is difficult - it isn't! But it does mean that you will need to learn a few new things, so just remember that every bridge you have to cross is one bridge closer to your goal!

And avoid the trap that many fall into, thinking "This is harder than windows$!". It isn't harder - just different! You weren't born knowing how to use window$ either! You learned all those habits slowly over a long period of time! Expect it, and remember that as in all things, you will be rewarded in proportion to the effort you put into it!

I hope these thoughts are helpful, offered in the best spirit of encouragement! Go get 'em!

Anyway, best of luck! And best wishes for the coming year, may it bring you peace and confidence as you move forward along your new GNU/Linux journey!
Hi Astrogeek, What I meant by being more like windows is not that Linux would be a windows clone, not at all, I am aware of the differences and in fact that's why I've become a Linux-head if I can call myself that, for lack of a better word. I have recognized the value of this OS a long time ago, just dragged my feet into the new system. I don't like being a total newbie once again.

What I meant by being more "windows like" is in the installation process, but it's probably already there and I don't know it. (That's how much a newbie I am). I've installed Ubuntu now, and restarting for the first time. Looks like the graphical interface (desktop) is working yes it boots to the desktop, waiting for icons to appear... booting red screen.... icons.... ALL RIGHT! system up and running.

I intend to put all efforts into it, as much as possible, will run both computers my main with windows (now forcing 10 on me) and Linux in parallel, will try to convert all my apps from windows to Linux, so I can carry on my work on Linux, and eventually, transfer all my files from windows to Linux, then change my main computer which has two drives (one TByte, one 200G) over to Linux, then find some program that will allow me to DL windows apps when needed and I'm all set.

Lots to learn...


...
(bear with me, I'm having problems with windows)

Last edited by RobertDepelteau; 12-27-2015 at 02:04 PM.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 02:22 PM   #6
astrogeek
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Great outlook!

As jdkaye says, the Debian "problem" may just be that the Debian minimal install does not include the graphical interface (also called X server and X applications). But if you have 'Buntu installed now press onward!

This provides the opportunity to point out an important Linux fact in case you had not noted it: It is entirely possible to have a fully functional, multi-user, network accessible Linux installation with no GUI at all! The GUI in fact, is not part of Linux proper at all! This can be confusing to window$ users who think they have been dumped to some sort of broken state! So realize that the little blinking cursor is your friend and represents just another choice not available on their old, more limited OS!

Good luck!
 
Old 12-27-2015, 02:28 PM   #7
RobertDepelteau
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Got internet now... !
Now onto Arduino. :

Now sudo apt-update

Maybe?

Last edited by RobertDepelteau; 12-27-2015 at 02:29 PM.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 02:35 PM   #8
RobertDepelteau
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Registered: Dec 2015
Posts: 17

Original Poster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrogeek View Post
Great outlook!

As jdkaye says, the Debian "problem" may just be that the Debian minimal install does not include the graphical interface (also called X server and X applications). But if you have 'Buntu installed now press onward!

This provides the opportunity to point out an important Linux fact in case you had not noted it: It is entirely possible to have a fully functional, multi-user, network accessible Linux installation with no GUI at all! The GUI in fact, is not part of Linux proper at all! This can be confusing to window$ users who think they have been dumped to some sort of broken state! So realize that the little blinking cursor is your friend and represents just another choice not available on their old, more limited OS!

Good luck!
Hey astrogeek, things are looking up, I knew that the prompt didn't mean the system was not adequate, it's just that I didn't have the commands to go forward. But now I have something to look at, so I'm feeling a lot more secure. I need to update and upgrade the system. This drive has 200Gs so I can experiment a bit, D/L some software add-ons that didn't come with the basic DL.

Any suggestions?

PS I want to become a good Linux tech, with network set-ups, gaming perhaps not really my thing, but for sure, I want to work with raspberry pi, have to set up for wifi relay.

Lots to do....
 
Old 12-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #9
RobertDepelteau
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Alright, I'm writing from my new Ubuntu Firefox wifi configured system.
So I'm not a total newbie anymore.
I'll have to move to a (eek) more advanced forum...

Thanks for your help.
Be patient with me, I have a lot of grounds to cover.

Thanks for your quick answers, looking forward to become a Linux "go-to" person.

Robert

Last edited by RobertDepelteau; 12-27-2015 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old 12-27-2015, 03:33 PM   #10
onebuck
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Member response

Hi,

Welcome to LQ!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertDepelteau View Post
Alright, I'm writing from my new Ubuntu Firefox wifi configured system.
So I'm not a total newbie anymore.
I'll have to move to a (eek) more advanced forum...

Thanks for your help.
Be patient with me, I have a lot of grounds to cover.

Thanks for your quick answers, looking forward to become a Linux "go-to" person.

Robert
You still have room to grow!
I would suggest that you look into these;
Quote:
Just a few links to aid you to gaining some understanding;


1 Linux Documentation Project
2
Rute Tutorial & Exposition
3
Linux Command Guide
4 Bash Beginners Guide
5
Bash Reference Manual
6
Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide
7
Linux Newbie Admin Guide
8
LinuxSelfHelp
9
Utimate Linux Newbie Guide

The above links and others can be found at '
Slackware-Links'. More than just SlackwareŽ links!
Some of the links above may seem dated but will provide you with information that is still very useful. It will take you awhile to get to the level where you can assist others. Break things and learn!
Learn to document your actions so you will have the means to back out of a problem.

Learn to use the syslogs to understand what is going on with your system.

Turnkey/hand holding distributions are a good place to start but if you really want to learn then look at Slackware. Slackware forum is a very friendly and helpful resource when one attempts to help themselves. Slackware Doc Project is a useful resource for newbies and experienced users to help when they get stuck or need a quick refresh of how to do something.

Slackware64_Live would allow you to test drive. Well documented to help you through setup with necessary information.
Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy!

 
Old 12-27-2015, 06:30 PM   #11
RobertDepelteau
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Thank you onebuck.

I will dutifully open every link and study, study, study. Clicked on some of the links already, very interesting, the parallel between dos commands and their equivalents in linux, very useful. Good starting point. I'll run syslogs and study them fer sure, to familiarize myself with the new OS.

I would suggest developers to angle towards a graphical installation for everything. It makes all the work easier. The reason for this is that the simpler the system the more people will turn to it. I liked the fact that I was able to install wifi hassle free, all the clicking was already in boxes I just had to fill. This makes it very user friendly. And the more user friendly it is, the more people will turn to it. I'm certain that Windows is popular because it is hassle free, not because it's complicated to use. the ability for users to turn their windows docs into Linux docs also. Being able to migrate from one system to the other seamlessly, that plays a big part in changing over. If I lose all my databases, all my documents, all my files because they can't be transferred over, that a huge roadblock.

Just my two cents as I step into the Linux world.
 
Old 12-28-2015, 06:18 PM   #12
ardvark71
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Welcome to the forum, Robert. Best wishes with your endeavor and "studies."

Regards...
 
Old 12-28-2015, 06:54 PM   #13
vincix
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Just wanted to add that usually minimal installations not only do they not contain a graphical environment, but many of what you'd call basic packages that offer very common commands are also not included (In Centos, for instance, you don't have ifconfig, route, which are being superseded, indeed, but you also don't have lsusb, lspci, and so on). So you'd need to pay attention to that too if you are to continue with that version. Otherwise, you could simply install a normal-sized distro that offers a series of basic packages. It could be easier in the beginning.

P.S. Linux is often used as a server, router, etc., and GUI is definitely not recommended on linux distros that have this role. So it's one thing to use it as a desktop, and quite a different thing to use it as what it's best for: a server (or as a network equipment). That's one of the reasons why it's more important, I guess, for developers to focus on that, instead of the desktop - even though the GUI has really evolved in the last 10-15 years.

I know lots of people feel very offended when you draw comparisons with Windows, but you should be free to do so. There are more similarities (for desktop use, of course) than many would like to admit. And many behave rather dogmatically, even if you dare talk about minimazing or maximizing windows just like in Windows and so on. Which is quite silly, of course. You'd have something to gain even when you understand the contrasts. It's better than to start from scratch, really. Very often you can understand notions easier if you know their 'opposites'.

Last edited by vincix; 12-28-2015 at 07:05 PM.
 
Old 12-28-2015, 07:01 PM   #14
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertDepelteau View Post
My first DL was Debian Jessie, installed minimal system, but can't get into the graphical interface. All I get is the prompt, I tried with gnome-session that didn't get nowhere, startx neither, tried echo "exec gnome-session" >/. xinitc and that didn't work either. So now I'm going with ubuntu, see if I can get a graphic interface. My first recommendation to Linux OS developpers is; make a system that installs and runs like windows does.
Minimal means minimal. A minimal install has EVERYTHING stripped out in order to make the iso file as small as possible. The GUI is the VERY FIRST thing to go when a distro is being stripped down for a minimal install because it's so big. Minimal installs are for people who know what they're doing or NEED a minimal install due to space limitations, it's not for newbies. Don't blame the distro or the developers because you downloaded the wrong iso file, just download the complete file and re-do the installation, the GUI will be installed by default exactly as you expect.
 
Old 12-28-2015, 07:56 PM   #15
Habitual
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https://debian-handbook.info/browse/jessie/
 
  


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