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Old 07-16-2010, 10:09 AM   #61
igadoter
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@teebones
tell us how did you learn Linux? In a safe environment? I really doubt of it.

Ubuntu is a system 'use it as it is' - but if something goes wrong you are on your own. So ubuntu is in now way easier than any other Linux distro.
Linux user is fully responsible and it is not a good idea to rely on the other people for doing something for you. But there are many who want to help you.

There is no 'enlightenment path' for Linux. Most of us learn about Linux by solving problems. Learning Linux is like solving the complicated puzzle where is 10000 pieces. Here is a freedom and sometimes it is difficult to say who is apprentice and who is a master.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 10:28 AM   #62
teebones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
@teebones
tell us how did you learn Linux? In a safe environment? I really doubt of it.

Ubuntu is a system 'use it as it is' - but if something goes wrong you are on your own. So ubuntu is in now way easier than any other Linux distro.
Linux user is fully responsible and it is not a good idea to rely on the other people for doing something for you. But there are many who want to help you.

There is no 'enlightenment path' for Linux. Most of us learn about Linux by solving problems. Learning Linux is like solving the complicated puzzle where is 10000 pieces. Here is a freedom and sometimes it is difficult to say who is apprentice and who is a master.
so you're saying: invent the wheel all over again, while the wheel (and the experience how to make it) is already there (and documented).
The point i made was about the approach, on how to start with things.
You can only learn, if you gain a little headsup by someone who has done it already. You need knowlegde to gain more knowlegde. simple fact.
You learned too from what other told you, even about the existence of linux, was though to you by someone. (the primer knowlegde to gain knowledge is done too)
Whenever you read up some information, you are infact using someone elses experiences and lay it against your own. (and either utilize it, or mingle it, or shove it away, conclusion: you do things with that information to your own gain)
Thus knowlegde gains knowlegde.

Also, why take quite steep risks, when many people tell you not too take it, for your own good? (and they have in general more experience in it, and know the caveats/pitfalls, compared to the one being told not to )
Better learn to walk before starting to run. Better to learn how to use the hands, before learing to write without knowing how to move a finger to way you want it (which uses muscle coordination of the hand itself mostly)

i hope you get what i'm trying to explain, just as in the previous post.
it's the foundation on how to learn best in general. (which has been proven by many studies on the topic)
 
Old 07-16-2010, 11:31 AM   #63
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wim Sturkenboom View Post
No, the worst thing that can happen (to the rest of the world) is e.g. that your system starts functioning as a spam bot or something like that. Or some trojan steals your identity (not our problem), empties your bank account (not our problem) and some other nice things (can be our problem).
Let me get this straight: If I'm logged in as root, this type of stuff is more likely to occur, even if I do nothing to foster it? I'm thinking if some hacker is writing trojans which only work on LINUX systems and only when the user is logged on as root, he is going after a pretty small target.......like a car thief who only looks for ferraris in which the keys have been left in the ignition.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsciw View Post
When you log in as win admin all the time and, maybe accidentally, maybe not, do crap like that, what do you expect?
What do you expect if you log in as root only and, maybe accidentally, maybe not, do 'rm -rf /'? Botched up as well...

IMO if you want to run as root only, your problem, with the possibility to affect others too though. And once the proverbial hits the fan, don't come searching for help, it was your own choice and own fault after all and you were told from the beginning how to prevent it.
Don't worry, I haven't logged on as root thus far- likely the oinly time I will is if one of you guys tells me that I need to do so in order to perform a specific task. But it's nice to know that it's there. (I never did delete any DLL or cab files- I was just making the analogy that I always had the opportunity to do so...but never did- sorry that I was not more clear on that- I try to keep my posts short, as I tend to be a bit long-winded)


Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
If he's using Ubuntu and trying to configure his computer or just poke around to see what's there he will be getting a LOT of prompts, not to mention things like automatic updates. Ubuntu's defaults are very mother-henish for better or worse.
Funny you should mention that, because that was going to be my next question! I unchecked the "check for updates" box in the update manager (and had to enter my password to do so!), but still, every time I boot up, there's the update manager minimized and also a pop-up box telling me that I need to manually check for updates!!! AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

I'm sure there must be a way to stop the update manager from appearing unless I call for it....any ideas? (This is all too reminiscent of Windows!!)

Once I get these few annoyances solved though, I'll be very happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damgar View Post
Reading over this thread makes me laugh. If anything the OP has learned just how passionate linux users can be about certain subjects. I'm waiting for a little name calling and it will be text book flame bait.
LOL- I guess it's analogous to a Windows guru telling you to download and use some utility instead of merely telling you to paste something into the registry or command prompt. I'm enjoying the banter, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
Yeah, I agree that ubuntu is a bit paranoid of the security if you think that ubuntu
is supposed to be "easy to use and friendly".
I am also ubuntu user. The first thing you should do is to set the password for the "root" account so you will be able to login as a root. Sooner or later you will find that "sudo" is not enough for administrative tasks. For this issue

sudo passwd

This will allow to you to set password for the root account. Of course as a root you may easily damage seriously a system but feel free making any experiments you want. If something will go wrong simply reinstall a system. But of course take care of your important files.
I am sure you will find Linux amusing.
Thank you. That is exactly the way I view it. I'm enjoying Ubuntu very much.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:04 PM   #64
Sumguy
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I think I solved the Update Manager problem- I went to startup applications and unchecked it.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:15 PM   #65
Sumguy
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I had to do it! I just did the "sudo passwd"- but now when I open the terminal, I still see the "~$", instead of the "#", so I guess I'm not logged on as root (I have a feeling that all I did was change my sudo password) - thoughts?
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:16 PM   #66
arashi256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumguy View Post
Let me get this straight: If I'm logged in as root, this type of stuff is more likely to occur, even if I do nothing to foster it? I'm thinking if some hacker is writing trojans which only work on LINUX systems and only when the user is logged on as root, he is going after a pretty small target.......like a car thief who only looks for ferraris in which the keys have been left in the ignition.
Not exactly - think of it more as this stuff is more likely to occur when running programs and daemons as root even if you do nothing knowingly based on your current knowledge and skillset to foster it. Why take the risk when you don't have to?

Besides, if you ever want to do this stuff professionally, you have to learn about proper system security. Why bother having to unlearn all these bad habits and just do it right first time out? Then if you ever teach anyone else (here or elsewhere), you won't be propogating bad habits that somebody else will have to undo.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:23 PM   #67
igadoter
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@Sumguy
you make me feel really worry, I never heard before about TROJAN under Linux, tell us if you will find it. The one of the reasons for using Linux is that you don't have to worry about all these nasty beasts.

Please,no one care about your computer. Spamers use eg. mailing lists hosted by university servers.
Root for Linux is like admin in Windows. Don't having access to a root account you may find someday that you are unable eg. to mount a device. Again, if you really worry about safety of you computer you have to have full access to all its resources.

Finally if ubuntu is so safe why I know how to set the root password but ubuntu-user don't? If during installation ubuntu installer will give a choice to set password for root or use "sudo", and will inform how it may be done later (if the user change his mind and decide to use root account) it will be ok. But it doesn't work that way. And sooner or later ubuntu-user will find that has to login as a root, but how to login when one doesn't know the password?

@teebones
You didn't answer my question.
Linux still is changed. What we have learned five years ago may be no longer valid today for recent Linux versions. So it is not like discovering still the same thing.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:23 PM   #68
rsciw
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no, doing
sudo passwd doesn't log you in as root.

to double check which user you're logged into currently, run
whoami
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:29 PM   #69
MTK358
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I also think that automatic updates are mostly annoying.

The perfect automatic update tool for me would have an icon in the tray that would change if there were updates, and clicking on it would give me a list of the updates, and after I agreed to it I would enter the password and it would get out of my way with no unnecessary dialogs notifying me of the progress.

mintUpdate is almost like that, except you have to keep 2 or 3 annoying dialogs open while it does it's thing.

Last edited by MTK358; 07-16-2010 at 12:31 PM.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:30 PM   #70
igadoter
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@Sumguy

Did you set a password? Open terminal and issue
$su
at the prompt insert the root password. (su stands for super user - everyone wants to be super)
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:39 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
Don't having access to a root account you may find someday that you are unable eg. to mount a device. Again, if you really worry about safety of you computer you have to have full access to all its resources.

Finally if ubuntu is so safe why I know how to set the root password but ubuntu-user don't? If during installation ubuntu installer will give a choice to set password for root or use "sudo", and will inform how it may be done later (if the user change his mind and decide to use root account) it will be ok. But it doesn't work that way. And sooner or later ubuntu-user will find that has to login as a root, but how to login when one doesn't know the password?
You are extremely mistaken. A root account is never required in Ubuntu; every single system administration command can be executed using "sudo". For example to mount a device:

Code:
sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /media/usb
Please consider how dangerous your bad advice is to new Ubuntu users. Among other harms, it means the user will no longer be able to get support from the official Ubuntu help pages, wiki, and forums (since every single tutorial assumes the root account is locked and 'sudo' is being used instead).

For more details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:41 PM   #72
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
@Sumguy

Did you set a password? Open terminal and issue
$su
at the prompt insert the root password. (su stands for super user - everyone wants to be super)
I thought it meant "substitute user", and it chooses root by default.

Last edited by MTK358; 07-16-2010 at 12:42 PM.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 12:53 PM   #73
igadoter
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@MTK358

I didn't think like that. I guess you right.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 01:03 PM   #74
Sumguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arashi256 View Post
Not exactly - think of it more as this stuff is more likely to occur when running programs and daemons as root even if you do nothing knowingly based on your current knowledge and skillset to foster it. Why take the risk when you don't have to?

Besides, if you ever want to do this stuff professionally, you have to learn about proper system security. Why bother having to unlearn all these bad habits and just do it right first time out? Then if you ever teach anyone else (here or elsewhere), you won't be propogating bad habits that somebody else will have to undo.
Now THAT is a compelling argument, and I am largely trying to do that, by reading the links and tutorials that you all have posted. Trouble is, I get bored with the little mundane stuff- especially when it talks of things which are not relevant to my needs and objectives....so I tend to jump ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
@Sumguy
you make me feel really worry, I never heard before about TROJAN under Linux, tell us if you will find it. The one of the reasons for using Linux is that you don't have to worry about all these nasty beasts.

.
That is what I thought- I had heard that trojans weren't an issue in LINUX, but then I see people here saying that if I log in as root, I will be more succeptable to trojans. (I'm beginning to think that some of the guys are trying to have some fun with the newbie...like when a mechanic tells a person who is clue;ess about cars that they're low on blinker fluid!)



Quote:
Originally Posted by igadoter View Post
@Sumguy

Did you set a password? Open terminal and issue
$su
at the prompt insert the root password. (su stands for super user - everyone wants to be super)

Bingo! Did that and now it says "Root@<computer name>:/home/<my user name>#"

Ladies and gentlemen, I am logged in as root! (and yet I continue to live!)

So when I want to log in as root, I just need to type "su" and then enter the password- that's the way it works?

The "whoami" says I'm Root! Ruh-roh!!!!

(Now I must go back to that tutorial I was just reading, which tells how to loog out of root!)
 
Old 07-16-2010, 01:05 PM   #75
igadoter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpine
A root account is never required in Ubuntu; every single system administration command can be executed using "sudo".
There are two hells in Linux. The first - the library dependencies,
the second - permissions. The root account is used for escape from the second hell.
 
  


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