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Old 03-13-2008, 10:44 PM   #16
jiml8
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Apparently Mesenger defines your standard, and that is what you want. I vaguely remember the program but I couldn't tell you a thing about it now...never used it, just knew it existed.

Personally, I find Kontact using the Kmail plugin to be more than adequate for all my needs in a client, but that is just me. What do you want to do that you can't do with it?
 
Old 03-14-2008, 12:12 AM   #17
Labman
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First I expect a spell check that allows you to edit your original word, rather than its first suggestion if none of the suggestions are right. I expect to select spell check, send, etc. from a button, not a menu. I find the ''Edit message as new'' feature useful at times. For one thing, you can forward things with it without forwarding all the address in the original.

I may boot up my live Ubuntu CD tomorrow and see if I can find Kontact and look at it. I may even look at NS 7. It is possible they realized 6 was a mistake and went back to the superior product they had.
 
Old 03-14-2008, 01:46 AM   #18
jiml8
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Truthfully, I have not looked at this in detail on Linux, but I do believe the spell checker is not associated with any application, but is available globally on the system. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Therefore the capability it provides is global on the system; to change capabilities you change spell checkers.
 
Old 03-14-2008, 06:14 AM   #19
Labman
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Messenger, Open Office, and likely other applications have their own spell checks which work the same in Mac, Windows, and Linux. I am not interested in taking a step backwards going to a less usable feature I use heavily. If Kontact uses Ispell, forget it.
 
Old 03-14-2008, 10:51 AM   #20
jiml8
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I practically never use a spell checker unless it is already configured to run, so I am not up on this. But in addition to ispell, there is aspell and kspell. I believe that by default kde uses kspell, but when I check I see that my installation is set to use ispell.

I just fiddled with Kontact for a minute and changed ispell to aspell.

I then re-read this thread a bit and established that your essential complaint appears to be that spellcheck is on a menu item rather than a button, and apparently ispell doesn't let you edit your original word (aspell does permit this). So I changed the toolbar on the compose window to put spellcheck on a button. This is easily accomplished; from the composer window, choose settings, configure toolbars. Choose the main toolbar, then choose to place the spelling option on the toolbar.

Now I have spellcheck available as a single click on the composer window and since I am using aspell I can change the original word if I want to.

The main thing about linux that you will notice as you get into it is that the configuration options available vastly exceed those of Windows - and once you get the hang of it, Linux is usually easier to configure than Windows.

However, GNU/Linux is without doubt very different than Windows in terms of both fundamental design philosophy and execution. The downside to this is that anyone coming from Windows has to deal with a steep learning curve.

The upside to this is that, generally, the answer is "yes, you can do that".
 
Old 03-15-2008, 12:51 AM   #21
Labman
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''The downside to this is that anyone coming from Windows has to deal with a steep learning curve.''

Could be. More so with somebody like me coming from Mac where things work, and are intuiative or transparent. Those coming from Windows should be used to bugs you have to work around by going into DOS.

I tried some of your suggestions on Aspell, and didn't manage to make them work in KDE 3.1 and Mandrake 10.1.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 11:07 AM   #22
vpsville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
Could be. More so with somebody like me coming from Mac where things work, and are intuiative or transparent. Those coming from Windows should be used to bugs you have to work around by going into DOS.
DOS hasn't been around since the 90's

The best way to learn is to have a specific task or goal in mind and then learn how to accomplish it. If you just tinker you don't learn much in comparison to the time you spent.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 01:18 PM   #23
jiml8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
''The downside to this is that anyone coming from Windows has to deal with a steep learning curve.''

Could be. More so with somebody like me coming from Mac where things work, and are intuiative or transparent. Those coming from Windows should be used to bugs you have to work around by going into DOS.

I tried some of your suggestions on Aspell, and didn't manage to make them work in KDE 3.1 and Mandrake 10.1.
The advantage you have with a Mac is that someone else has ironed out the details. This is the same advantage you have when you purchase a pre-built Windows computer with Windows already installed.

With Linux, there are a few pre-installed systems available but generally you have to do it yourself. Try installing Windows on a random "plain white box" and you will encounter lots of little problems too. You can't install OSX on a random plain white box...

Also, you have no business complaining about Linux if you are going to run an ancient (and no longer supported) distro. Mandrake 10.1 was good for its day, but its day is long past. Also, KDE has come a looooong way since 3.1. I presently am running 3.5.7.

Upgrade to a modern distro and try again.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 09:41 PM   #24
chrism01
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I'd also like to point out that even Mac's aren't intuitive.
It has been shown that if you put someone in front of a computer, any OS, who has never used a computer before, none of them are intuitive.
It's what you're used to, which is why, for example, this was written for (ex) MS users: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
 
Old 03-15-2008, 09:50 PM   #25
Labman
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Last week I loaded Kubuntu 7.1.0 on to my new system. I was extreamely disappointed with it, and went back to my old system while studying alternatives. I decided to comment on the time setting problem in this thread when I ran across it.

As for Mandrake 10.1 being obsolete, I am comparing it to Mac 7.6.1 I started using 8 years ago.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 10:34 PM   #26
Labman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrism01 View Post
I'd also like to point out that even Mac's aren't intuitive.
It has been shown that if you put someone in front of a computer, any OS, who has never used a computer before, none of them are intuitive.
It's what you're used to, which is why, for example, this was written for (ex) MS users: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
To an extent that is true. I thought one of the hokyiest scenes in any movie ever was the Star Trek one where they came back to the 90's to get the whales. Once somebody pointed out it was a mouse and not a mike, Scottie had no problems onthe computer giving them the directions for manfacturing Plasteel or whatever.

But while I eventually became proficient with a TI programable calculator, a TRS-80 color computer, and Mac 7.6.1, I never got anywhere with Mandrake. As for Windows, nothing in my limited use of it encouraged me to make further use of it. I am comfortable with those that suggest it is an inferior copy of Mac.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 12:10 PM   #27
jiml8
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I conclude that you have never become familiar with a modern operating system. Mac 7 was not modern and was in fact obsolete at the time it was deployed because it was a single thread OS (which employed a limited cooperative multitasking mechanism) when the small computer industry had (finally!) moved to a preemptive multitasking standard.

Prior to the deployment of OS-X, there was no question that Windows (95 and later) was superior to Mac; the deployment of Windows 95 was in fact a phase-change for microsoft and did vastly improve that environment. In the same timeframe, Linux was a hackers-only OS so shouldn't be compared; it was relatively rudimentary and distinctly unpolished, though it was preemptive multitasking AND multiuser.

Also in the same timeframe, the first preemptive multitasking small computer on the market (the Amiga) had become orphaned by the death of Commodore and was in its death throes.

Basically, when you hold Mac 7 up as the standard, what you are doing is comparing a 1940s-era car to a modern car.

Mandrake 10.1 is vastly more advanced than Mac 7, though 10.1 still had a few rough edges. The subtext I get from the examples that you set forth is that you have not considered or do not understand the basic difference in philosophy and in capability between a single thread system (TRS-80 and Mac 7) and a preemptive multitasking environment (OS-X, WinXP, Linux). The latter environment is certainly more complicated, but is vastly, vastly more capable.

You have no choice but to deal with the complexity, if you wish to move beyond Mac 7. OS-X does an excellent job of hiding the complexity from you, while retaining a capability for you to "get under the hood" when you have to. Windows...well...it is Windows, and consistently tries to not only hide the complexity from you but to also prevent you from working inside it if you need to. Linux's hacker roots still show; it can indeed be complicated, but recent distros (such as Ubuntu 7.10 or Mandriva 2008) do a very credible job of hiding the complexity from you, unless you want to get into it.

Where Linux suffers today is in third party vendor support; not all vendors support it and not all support it adequately. That is changing, but for now if you wish to deploy a Linux machine you do need to be careful what components you put in it.

Now, I will also mention that I myself owned and made extensive use of a first generation TI programmable calculator (the SR-52...I still have it...). I also spent the 15 minutes it took me to become proficient with the original TRS-80 computer. And the half hour it took to learn DOS. And I sat down with Macs starting with the original Mac..and could use it immediately of course.

But, although I played with these machines (calculator aside...I used it extensively for years) I never put any of these machines to serious work...because they just didn't have the capability. The first machine that I really worked with (not just played with) was the Amiga 1000, because THIS machine was the first one I could afford that had a true preemptive multitasking environment and a large enough memory address space to make use of that, which made it the first machine on the market that I could really use for serious work.

Windows 95, for all its flaws, was a massive step forward for Microsoft. OS-X was a massive step forward for Mac. Linux is now becoming a viable alternative to either of these, particularly as the latest generation of Windows shows the naked sword in Microsoft's hands.

But you have to be willing to move out of the stone age in order to take advantage of any of them.
 
  


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