I see what you are saying totally. I just believe why "pay" for third party software when not needed. I know I can get it anywhere on the net, but piracy is illegal and my ISP don't take lightly to piracy they've boot a few for downloading music and some Micro$uck products. So Linux is my out most software is open source and I have my compilers, net tools, and to a lesser degree a shell. I haven't actually bought a pre-assembled computer and it slipped my mind that they don't set them up. My laptop had a bad hd and memory when it was given to me, So I just assumed that he had already installed xp a few times. I know I have installed xp a thousand times. Literally. Also i have nothing against grub, its awesome I just prefer lilo. Also once you get grub on a floppy keep the floppy its very very handy even with a windows partition. Peace.